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Old 11-19-2008, 01:55 AM
 
Location: The Midst of Insanity
3,225 posts, read 6,123,192 times
Reputation: 3209

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My parents are both immigrants (mother from Moscow, father from Nuremburg), yet I feel funny referring to myself as a 'Russian-German-American'. And those few times I have, I've gotten really strange responses from people. Hell, my parents themselves don't even do that. We are citizens of the United States, therefore, we are Americans. Period.

Why are we applying these double standards? If we want to be seen as 'equals', then stop applying all of the labels and stop dividing ourselves.

Yes-be proud of your heritage and where you came from. Be if this is really to be the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA then Americans need to be united together. And right now it seems that we look for more and more excuses to seperate ourselves from each other and branch off. Just my opinion...

Last edited by annika08; 11-19-2008 at 02:11 AM..
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Old 11-19-2008, 01:19 PM
 
Location: West Texas
2,441 posts, read 5,245,515 times
Reputation: 3094
Okay... I took the time to read almost all 16 pages of replies before writing this, so hopefully this will come out somewhat articulate.

First, for all the whites, blacks, and others who originally engaged in the dialogue without malicious undertones, thank you. There are some points I would like to respond too, and unfortunately, I don't see some of the original posters still responding here. That's a shame because I would like to get some of their perspectives.

Post #39 elvislives talked to the point of listing black people who made inventions that had impact on the world. If you're still around, elvislives, that's a great point, and it drives home something very valid. In fact, there were many names there I didn't recognize, although the inventions were obvious. But, I put back on you the expectations you put on me. How many white inventors can you name along with their inventions? Outside of the mainstream inventors (Ben Franklin, Thomas Edison, etc.) I'd venture that you can't name many. So, although your point was well made, make sure that it can't boomerang back. Instead of saying whites should learn what blacks did, why can't we just say, we should learn all the great inventions along with how made them?

Post #51 was from Nemesis15 and was trying to claim that whites had the guns and what were blacks to do? My input would be the same thing whites that fought their independence from England did. There's only 7 shots in a revolver (if they were around then?) and only one in a musket. Numbers alone should show that one sacrifice for the many would have left the white guy in a world of hurt. That was not a very valid argument. I think the more valid argument would be against violence, however. Because of the mindset, a violent uprising from blacks at that time would have been extremely detrimental to their cause. Especially against those whites who supported their freedom from slavery. It could have equated to biting the hand that feeds you.

Post #76, again from elvislives, said he saw a KKK moron talking about white pride, questioning what he was proud about. Although I think the KKK has nothing to be proud about, as much as I think the Black Panthers had nothing to be proud about. But as whites - Americans - we have a lot to be proud of. We fought monarchy oppression. We lead the world in many medical arenas. We have just as many pertinent inventors as other races and nationalities. Our economy, as demonstrated by worldwide economic trends illustrate, is a world leader. That's just as foolish a comment (not calling elvislives a fool, but that line of logic or questioning) as someone saying: "what do blacks have to be proud of when they say 'black pride!!'"

I think America needs to take a deep breath. Look at some of the policies that are still in place, both from a white and a black perspective, and start trying to instill some common sense. Whites are still getting many lessons on equal rights, black accomplishments, etc. To some of us, it seems like the more we get shoved down our throat, almost the more resentment we're starting to build up. There are those of us that do see blacks as equals and treat each individual (male, female, black, white, hispanic) on even footing. That could be positive or negative. If I see someone wearing saggy pants, large chains, untied shoes, and a hat on sideways, I'm just as likely to think "moron" regardless of race or sex. By the same token, I'm more likely to respond positively to someone who dresses for less of a shock factor and more mainstream.

People are going to either treat people the same or not. It doesn't matter how much equal opportunity, history, or anything else that tries to educate the individual (regardless of color of skin). If they are going to have racist tendencies, no amount of training or education will change their mind, and they will have to live in that ignorance. And, as one person said (I didn't get name or post number), racism is taught, not born into an individual. All you have to do is watch a bunch of toddlers or kindergarteners playing in the playground. Then watch those same kids in high school. My bet is those kids who played together and had fun won't even be talking to each other in high school. Someone said "there's no such thing as reverse discrimination, there's just discrimination." And discrimination knows no color boundaries.

As someone (I think it was the one) said, all we can do is live our lives treating others the way we want to be treated. But by the time we hit that epiphany, we already know whether we're racist or not. Hopefully emphasis in the future will be on the "not" group.
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Old 11-19-2008, 01:27 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,402,860 times
Reputation: 47449
america is not thinking about you or your skin color at all.
but you are.
they are thinking about losing their house or job or both.
the president is black, as are many other major government posts
racial equality is not the issue it was.
i think mr obama says it so often he uses the word "we" a lot.
we need to get out of the them vs us, biz.
i have a dream.
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Old 11-19-2008, 01:56 PM
 
Location: West Texas
2,441 posts, read 5,245,515 times
Reputation: 3094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
america is not thinking about you or your skin color at all.
but you are.
they are thinking about losing their house or job or both.
the president is black, as are many other major government posts
racial equality is not the issue it was.
i think mr obama says it so often he uses the word "we" a lot.
we need to get out of the them vs us, biz.
i have a dream.
Then shouldn't you be saying "We" have a dream?!?
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Old 11-19-2008, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
7,091 posts, read 10,487,344 times
Reputation: 4104
Quote:
Originally Posted by annika08 View Post
My parents are both immigrants (mother from Moscow, father from Nuremburg), yet I feel funny referring to myself as a 'Russian-German-American'. And those few times I have, I've gotten really strange responses from people. Hell, my parents themselves don't even do that. We are citizens of the United States, therefore, we are Americans. Period.

Why are we applying these double standards? If we want to be seen as 'equals', then stop applying all of the labels and stop dividing ourselves.

Yes-be proud of your heritage and where you came from. Be if this is really to be the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA then Americans need to be united together. And right now it seems that we look for more and more excuses to separate ourselves from each other and branch off. Just my opinion...
Agreed, let us celebrate where we came from and look forward. Hating each other for what one long dead ancestor did to another doesn't seem to be helping anyone
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Old 11-19-2008, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Everybody is going to hurt you, you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for-B Marley
9,506 posts, read 17,310,607 times
Reputation: 9335
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldl79 View Post
Back in the 50s and 60s, there was a group of Americans which were referred to as 'coloreds'. Today, they are now 'Black' and 'African-American' -- Both of which are simply misleading.

For years, I questioned why Americans grouped very different people into the same bucket. I often wondered why society wanted to label me as a 'Black' or 'African-American' male. Eventually, I grew tired of the nonsense and became a vocal opponent of race in America.
The latter two, of which (see now I don't know how to refer to them) Blacks, themselves, chose--came about as a result of the Black Panthers, I've been told--and we were told it's politically correct to call them what they ask. Ok, Black it is. Then they changed their minds. They wanted to be called African-American--came about after Alex Haley's(?) 'Roots' whereupon they wanted to identify with that side of their history. Ok, African-American it is. I'm waiting, now, for the next new politically correct term. First Nations people are going through the same dance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldl79 View Post
Today, nothing has changed. You can be fairest skinned human being -- Or the darkest -- And Americans will still call you 'Black'. How did we arrive to a day where we're incapable of citing the obvious? Are the varying skin tones not apparent? The features? If you mixed two colors, would one of the two remain? Of course not. Yet, that's how we identify Americans everyday in this country.
This makes me want to pull my hair out. Let's get it out there once and for all, what do YOU want us to call everyone? Even when people acknowledged Obama's White heritage, many Blacks, excuse me, African-Americans(?) went into a frenzy about him being a Black man, not White. *sigh* No matter what anyone says, someone is going to be offended. I agree about one thing, it shouldn't come down to our race but it does. In a few rare instances, it's needed--the correct term, I guess--for the sake of the issue at hand. But those instances, imo, are very rare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldl79 View Post
What's even more appalling are the millions of Americans hiding behind the 'Black' and 'White' labels. There are plenty of Italians, Irish, Native Americans, Hispanics and others which comfortably identify with the 'White' label. But what is 'White' and 'Black' anyway? It's a mindset. It's a social design. If we were taught 'real history', we would have learned how today's social model was created. How millions of people assimilated to the status of 'Whiteness' or 'Blackness'.
Man. I'm almost at a loss for words here but there's so much swimming through my thoughts right now. For starters, no one is 'hiding'. Being half Russian Jew and half Indian, myself--which was changed to Native American because Indian originally referred to East Indians--which was changed to First Nations People because many American born citizens became offended saying they're also Native Americans because they're born here--I am not widely accepted among my own people of that heritage, yet, I was made fun of among many Whites for being "Indian". Do you see where I'm going here? We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. I caught on to this at a very early age and things haven't changed here either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldl79 View Post
We've become so brainwashed by this social conditioning that we don't really take the time to think for ourselves. Other ideas, other people and other beliefs make the decisions and distinctions for us. It's so easy to give away independent thought, but so hard to question the validity of what we've been taught.
Sounds good in theory but most people don't know what others want to be referred to as so no one knows what to say anymore. Too much political correctness getting in the way of us knowing how to talk to each other anymore and too many people changing how they want people to see them, changing the rules at least once a generation. Can you blame people for being confused?
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Old 11-19-2008, 03:37 PM
 
Location: West Coast
64 posts, read 283,032 times
Reputation: 48
It all comes down to Americans simply recognizing ourselves as
just that-American. Anything else is simply divisive.
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