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Old 10-07-2008, 01:37 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,402,860 times
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the fact that it is up for discussion is a sad commentary on our basic boundaries as a people.
discipline/punishment the whole concept is up for grabs. these concepts made us and the absence thereof will undo us.
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Old 10-07-2008, 07:00 AM
 
2,180 posts, read 3,187,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f_m View Post
Well actually, pay is not a reward, it is a trade of time, knowledge, and labor for money.
That's one theory, and not a bad one.

I would argue that any work-based payment is a reward for our hewing to certain standards of our employer. It is insufficient to put in the time and labor, applying our knowledge; we must put in that time and labor, while applying our knowledge in the approved methods and times.

Indeed, both definitions of the noun reward in Merriam-Webster apply to work - and to grades:

Quote:
1 : something that is given in return for good or evil done or received or that is offered or given for some service or attainment <the police offered a reward for his capture>

2 : a stimulus administered to an organism following a correct or desired response that increases the probability of occurrence of the response

One of the two definitions of the verb reward is recompense, whose first definition is:
Quote:
1 a: to give something to by way of compensation (as for a service rendered or damage incurred) b: to pay for
Grades are, arguably, a form of payment for students - for children, for whom school is where they go 'to work.' It is poor pay in a setting they've not chosen, doing work in a setting for which many are ill-prepared and which often has arbitrary and absurd rules.

But whether we view school as a place to train our future workers (which is how I am reading others' descriptions, above) or a place in which we are trading the commodity of grades and knowledge for the time and effort that the students put in, "education is its own reward," is an aphorism I've long heard applied to schooling when a student has asked "What's in it for me?" In frequency, it's right behind "You'll need this when you're older" and "If you don't learn how to obey these rules now, you'll be a failure when you grow up!"

The funniest thing about this, to me, is that I've found 90% of my jobs have been far more flexible about time than any school I've attended - and most of the remaining 10% was when I taught in a public school.
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Old 10-07-2008, 07:26 AM
 
1,628 posts, read 5,773,980 times
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The rewards are that your teacher, later boss, sees that you are the one who is there 10 minutes early. Not squeezing in if you have 15 minute leeway, or running in the last second so technically "not late." Managers see who is there b/c they want to do the work well and who is there b/c htey are afraid of getting "caught." Those taking their jobs seriously and getting there early will be the ones who get promoted, etc. They'll get rewarded in the long run.

In school, it depends what grade you're talking about. If a kid is in 3rd grade, I blame the parents. Get the kid up earlier. Get the kid to bed earlier. Have them get their clothes out the night before. Teach the kid at home the importance of being on time. Whatever you need to do. It seems a bit unfair to me to have the kid punished when they really have no control if Mommy gets into the car on time to get you there. Whenever I hear parents blame the young kids for being late, it means nothing to me. Teach them better!!

But rewards for being in school on time? No, because again I think it's really the parents doing a good job parenting more than anything.

I think the parents should be called if a kid is late but nothing taken out on the kid himself. He can't help it if Mom didn't get up and do her job on time.
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:30 AM
 
372 posts, read 760,764 times
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Make attendance and participation part of the course. Take attendance at the start of class, and if somebody isn't there on time, they get 0 points for attendance. (10% total, 5% attendance, 5% participation).

The student could still get an A if they didn't participate much, or if they were consistantly late, but they'd have to be damn near perfect in all other aspects.
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:45 AM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,202,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICAGOLAND92 View Post
I was thinking about this in class today. I think that tardy students should be penalized, because I don't think it's too good of an idea to reward people for things they should already do. Also, if you get rewarded for things you should already be doing, you'll eventually expect to get rewarded for doing things you should already be doing, such as helping others and doing well in school.

What do you think?
What's next? Rewarding people for breathing and not soiling their pants?
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:50 AM
f_m
 
2,289 posts, read 7,363,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
the fact that it is up for discussion is a sad commentary on our basic boundaries as a people.
discipline/punishment the whole concept is up for grabs. these concepts made us and the absence thereof will undo us.
No joke.
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:51 AM
f_m
 
2,289 posts, read 7,363,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jps-teacher View Post
That's one theory, and not a bad one.

I would argue that any work-based payment is a reward for our hewing to certain standards of our employer. It is insufficient to put in the time and labor, applying our knowledge; we must put in that time and labor, while applying our knowledge in the approved methods and times.
A job agreement is a legal contract, a "reward" isn't.
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Old 10-07-2008, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,088 posts, read 4,543,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
What's next? Rewarding people for breathing and not soiling their pants?
Great Idea! I could use the extra income!
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Old 10-07-2008, 10:56 AM
 
2,180 posts, read 3,187,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f_m View Post
A job agreement is a legal contract, a "reward" isn't.
I think that if one removes from 'reward' the concept that it is given in exchange for a particular service and the concept that it is used to train, then your distinction makes sense.

But, I really don't see how one can divest the word of those two meanings.

Pretty much every setting I can think of in which one is formally given a reward, there is a legal obligation established, or at least an implicit 'contract' between parties, if not a written and witnessed contract. Indeed, in certain educational circumstances, a contract is used to try to direct behavior into more desirable realms.

Some people consider rewards to be side benefits of employment in a particular industry or company: discounts, travel, built in time off. Some of these are contractual 'rewards' and others are not, but the distinction is not as clean as "A job agreement is a legal contract, a 'reward' isn't."

The phrase "job reward" or the word reward by itself are common in the issues of retention and attraction of employees - examining different types of compensation, advancement, and benefits:

Job Satisfaction, Job Reward Characteristics, and Employees' Problem Drinking Behaviors -- MARTIN and ROMAN 23 (1): 4 -- Work and Occupations

Employers- Keeping Workers - Rewards and Incentives

Job Reward Value Differences Between Men, Non-Traditional and Traditional Women.

Job Reward
Preferences of Mexican-American and Anglo Public Employees
Cookie Absent (broken link)

There are many many others.
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,266,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Why isn't the classroom door locked? It should be.
Because doors shouldn't be locked...unless the room is unoccupied.

Hey, what happens if the professor is late? Does that mean we can dock his pay?
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