U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-07-2008, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Yootó
1,307 posts, read 3,191,691 times
Reputation: 790

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by zman0 View Post
I agree generally, except hard work is not enough, and should not be enough, to own a home.

You could be the best burger flipper at your local McDonalds, and you might have to work hard to become the best and stay the best. But that doesn't mean you are entitled to own a home.

Hard work and success are necessary steps to home ownership. Success comes only by making good choices combined with hard work.
I agree. The best burger flipper if he or she is smart enough, will become an assistant manager, and if that assistant manager minds their finances and works hard at that position, he or she might be able to afford a starter home, if that is what the goal is. If said assistant manager continues to work hard, he or she in all probability will either be promoted to manager, or find another managerial position elsewhere for more pay, or even start their own business if they are an entrepreneur. That's where you might be able to own that dream home you want. That's where you realize the American Dream.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-07-2008, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,361,805 times
Reputation: 4893
It's a fact that neighborhoods with high percentages of owner occupied homes are more stable and better maintained.

That said, owning ones home is a goal that most seek. Yet, not everyone wants to own a home. They don't want the responsibility of homeownership.

Homeownership is something that needs to work for - and if one works hard enough, most can reach the goal
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-07-2008, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,111,845 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by zman0 View Post
I agree generally, except hard work is not enough, and should not be enough, to own a home.

You could be the best burger flipper at your local McDonalds, and you might have to work hard to become the best and stay the best. But that doesn't mean you are entitled to own a home.

Hard work and success are necessary steps to home ownership. Success comes only by making good choices combined with hard work.

I do understand what you are saying and I should have been more specific. Of couse the minimum wage workers (who do work hard) will not earn a home just by doing minimum wage work and working dillegently at it. I was referring to families with professionals or families that have a husband/spouse or both in some sort of managerial or administrative position that work hard, etc. Since you agreed with me on the general principal I think you got the idea.. and thank you for clarifying .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-07-2008, 11:21 AM
 
372 posts, read 760,764 times
Reputation: 126
Owning a home is neither a reward nor a right. Owning a home is possibly a goal, and certainly can lead to obligations. You never truly own the home, and if you think you do, try to stop paying taxes....

On the most basic level, "owning a home" is simply an investment. It may come with certain benefits and obligations, but you're buying something because you percieve that in the future it you can sell it to somebody else for more than you paid for it. You're buying it because it makes more fiscal sense than renting. If rents were artificially low, it wouldn't make sense to "own" a home.

Not everyone can afford to invest in different investments. Not just anyone can purchase shares of BRK.A (Berkshire Hathsway, Inc.) currently trading around $127,000. Should it be a right that all citizens should own shares?... I don't think so. We play the hands we're dealt, and it does no good to fix the deck so that everybody gets the same cards.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-07-2008, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,111,845 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by DasNootz View Post
Owning a home is neither a reward nor a right. Owning a home is possibly a goal, and certainly can lead to obligations. You never truly own the home, and if you think you do, try to stop paying taxes....

On the most basic level, "owning a home" is simply an investment. It may come with certain benefits and obligations, but you're buying something because you percieve that in the future it you can sell it to somebody else for more than you paid for it. You're buying it because it makes more fiscal sense than renting. If rents were artificially low, it wouldn't make sense to "own" a home.

Not everyone can afford to invest in different investments. Not just anyone can purchase shares of BRK.A (Berkshire Hathsway, Inc.) currently trading around $127,000. Should it be a right that all citizens should own shares?... I don't think so. We play the hands we're dealt, and it does no good to fix the deck so that everybody gets the same cards.

I have to disagree with you on your middle paragraph in reference to a home being an investment. I believe that that is actually the AFTERTHOUGHT about owning a home..

I would gladly pay more to own than to rent. I have paid more to own then rent. Now going back to renting, but counting down the days till I can actually own again. It doesn't matter to me how much I make on my home when I sell it later..that's just a nice side perk. What I care about is establishing roots. Calling a neighborhood my home where my kids can go to school, make friends an grow up. Where I don't hve to worry about wether the landlord is going to want to sell when I'm not ready to buy the house and force me to move yet again (happened to me twice in 2 years before I got completely frustrated and bought my house which I'm not selling (can you say bad timing anyone!!))

No.. investment is NOT what comes to mind for me or most people when purchasing. I think stble home life, memories, etc. come to mind when we think of homeownership.. atleast the average person..

Perhaps referring to homes as "investments" is what got us in hot water in the first place.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-07-2008, 12:16 PM
 
372 posts, read 760,764 times
Reputation: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
I would gladly pay more to own than to rent. I have paid more to own then rent. Now going back to renting, but counting down the days till I can actually own again. It doesn't matter to me how much I make on my home when I sell it later..that's just a nice side perk. What I care about is establishing roots. Calling a neighborhood my home where my kids can go to school, make friends an grow up. Where I don't hve to worry about wether the landlord is going to want to sell when I'm not ready to buy the house and force me to move yet again (happened to me twice in 2 years before I got completely frustrated and bought my house which I'm not selling (can you say bad timing anyone!!))

No.. investment is NOT what comes to mind for me or most people when purchasing. I think stble home life, memories, etc. come to mind when we think of homeownership.. atleast the average person..

Perhaps referring to homes as "investments" is what got us in hot water in the first place.
Those are all benefits of the investment... Just like stock dividends. They all factor into your buying decision. Let me ask you this... If someone were to offer to give you a 30 year fixed mortgage for $1,000,000 to buy a house that you could rent for $1,000 / month, would you still want to purchase it?

I'd also add that what got us into trouble in the first place was the notion that everybody deserved to own a home... which lead to policy decisions that allowed speculators to purchase homes they couldn't afford in the first place. People speculated that their homes would be worth more in the future, because somebody else would pay more for the right to own a home. It didn't matter what it actually cost to build a home in terms of labor and material, just the notion that the address would increase because more people would want to own their very own home.

There's a fundamental difference between investment and speculation, and I suggest you read the teaching of Benjamin Graham if you don't believe me.

Purchasing a home for greater than what market rents will bare shows a lack of financial analysis. That'd be the equivalent of offering someone 25 one dollar bills for their 1 twenty dollar bill, just for the privlidge of holding a twenty dollar bill in your wallet.

Last edited by DasNootz; 10-07-2008 at 12:49 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-07-2008, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Orlando
8,181 posts, read 16,155,849 times
Reputation: 49730
How about I have the right to achive my goal.

Nobody should be handed anything. You appreciate things more if you work for it and earn it.

The mistake a lot of people make is trying to buy more than they need.

We are by no means wealthy but our priorities are right. We were approved for one amount divided this number in half and started looking from that figure.
I'm 46 and my house will be paid off in 5 years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-07-2008, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,111,845 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by DasNootz View Post
Those are all benefits of the investment... Just like stock dividends. They all factor into your buying decision. Let me ask you this... If someone were to offer to give you a 30 year fixed mortgage for $1,000,000 to buy a house that you could rent for $1,000 / month, would you still want to purchase it?

I'd also add that what got us into trouble in the first place was the notion that everybody deserved to own a home... which lead to policy decisions that allowed speculators to purchase homes they couldn't afford in the first place. People speculated that their homes would be worth more in the future, because somebody else would pay more for the right to own a home. It didn't matter what it actually cost to build a home in terms of labor and material, just the notion that the address would increase because more people would want to own their very own home.

There's a fundamental difference between investment and speculation, and I suggest you read the teaching of Benjamin Graham if you don't believe me.

Purchasing a home for greater than what market rents will bare shows a lack of financial analysis. That'd be the equivalent of offering someone 25 one dollar bills for their 1 twenty dollar bill, just for the privlidge of holding a twenty dollar bill in your wallet.

I understand where you are coming from.. but you are still looking at INVESTMENT..not as an average peson looks at a home as a home.


2000 - $2500/month rental. That got me some very nice homes in Pennsylvania. The asking price , however, if it were for sale would fall out of the range that would be affordable to me. So, I passed on renting those homes because if the owner were to sell it, I'd never be able to buy it. So I won't rent it either.. instead I found ah ome that is cheap rent that I would want to buy in the future, should I like my new area. Now, had I been able to afford the mortgage on those homes even if they were higher than the renting price.. I would purchase it right away. So I guess my answer is yes. If I can afford to purchase that million dollar home, even though it would be more than they are asking in rent, I would 100% purchase the home rather than rent it.. because I'd rather have it be mine to decorate, paint, stay in or or leave it should I so choose and not at the mercy of a landlord.

I don't think a lot of people even made notation of the difference between investment and speculation. See, they speculated ONLY to get them into a HOME.. NOT an investment to make money on. I saw in my area housing climbing WELL beyond affordable and if I didn't get in I'd never get in..or so I thought. Now.. I didn't neccesarily speculate because I ddin't finance 100%.

Those that looked at homes as ways to make quick money , or the flippers, really did do the "investing" and the "speculating". In the proccess, people that just worked hard and wanted a home ended up doing the same thing, but for different reasons.

I could tell you now that for me, I don't care of I owe more on my house than my house is worth. To me that made no difference. A lot of people loosing their homes to their ARM mortgages probably feel the same way, with the acception of those that are walking away simply because they are upside down (and those people are looking at the house as an investment, not a home)

It all depends on what angle you are looking at it from. For me, the fact that it is an INVESTMENT is the benefit of ownership, but not the reason to own a home.

I think it truly depends on the person.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-07-2008, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Southwest Nebraska
1,297 posts, read 4,023,684 times
Reputation: 893
I used to think just cause I worked hard and long hours I deserved a house to buy. How wrong I was. I was one that lost a home during this housing bubble though now I admit I was alot of the problem.

My wife and I made big money (to us ) on a small investment of inherited money (50,000) and made 300,000.00 1st. year but thought it would go on for years.

My mortgage went adjustable after 3 yrs. and I was just going to refi but business failed and credit failed and we lost every thing in a bankrupcy.

We bought a 1800.00/mo. house and had cars and toys at another 1800.00/mo., and business expenses of 5,000.00/mo. No problem with big income but when it went away so did everything else.

My point is I don't deserve a regular house but I can live in a used mobile home if thats all I can afford without gov't having to help me.

We drive an old car pd. for and manage to live on 12,000.00/yr. and still have credit card and home mortgage places telling us we can make something work for you but we refuse all that now cause we learned our lesson.

So everybody that thinks they have to have a regular house they don't and can continue to save while living cheaper than most anyplace and buy a house when they can afford it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-07-2008, 05:22 PM
 
Location: N. Ga
3,492 posts, read 3,097,101 times
Reputation: 1833
Bigg Mann... rep points for admitting that you made a mistake and learned from it. Congrats!

Owning a home is neither a reward nor a right. It is a choice. We too used to have a "house." When we decided to go on the road with hubby's business we sold the house, the furniture, gave away the junk, and put the memorabilia and non-replaceable in storage. Bought the RV and I said to myself, "How the hell am I going to live in this?" Well.... you know what... I'm living just fine. From 2500 Sq. ft. to less than 400. But, I'm still the same person, I still have the same hobbies. I have the same friends, (and making more). And, I'm probably better off.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top