do they have souls? how do they do it? (poll, Jesus, politician)

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by leangk

timothy mcveigh was a self procclimed agnostic.... he used to attend church alot with his dad and used to be a "devout christian" howeverever his attacks had no religious undertone or motivation whatsoever.

Then Timothy Mcveigh is proof that going to church is a waste of time.
Now how about them Branch Davidians?

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

..... to church is a waste of time.

To you, church may be a waste of time.

To a majority of Americans, it is not.

[zman0]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Then Timothy Mcveigh is proof that going to church is a waste of time.

A domestic terrorist didn't go to church and killed a lot of people.

And you point to this as proof that going to church is a waste of time? Maybe if he had gone to church regularly, he would have appreciated the value of human life and chosen not to kill so many people.

The comparison between "radical" Christians and Muslims is so far from being accurate that it's scary.

[leangk]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by leangkThen Timothy Mcveigh is proof that going to church is a waste of time.
Now how about them Branch Davidians?

are you bascically trying to brush off an outright lie you told that makes christians appear bad for no reason? even a 6 year old, looking on wikipedia could of found out the truth.

it was literarly under section 1.1 'religious beliefs".......

anyways.. despite the massive number of christians in the united states, canada, england, france ect, there have been very very very few attacks. almost none in fact

the fact is a religion cant be "bad". unless of course the point or ideology is to rid the world of everyone who doesnt believe in it. we do not have religions like that though. christianity, islam and judaism are supposed to be about peace, acceptance and so on. however in islam we have seen a political hijacking so bad, it has justified the murdering of women and children.

religion is part of the 'social glue" that keeps society functioning. and please, i dont want all the atheists attacking me for this one, its not me who says this, its scientists. more and more studies are finding that religion is in fact nessecary, and simply part of the "human evolution"

the point is i dont have problems with the christians in canada bothering nobody, or jews in america bothering nobody, or hindus in india bothering nobody. i do have a problem with the muslims justifying this killing, and with almost no muslims speaking out against it!! all the funding and money and effort they spend goes to "expelling the stereotypes and rascism". which in my opinion these steotypes are justified

[coldwynn]

Throughout history practically every major religion has used its belief system justify the attack on another group of people. Let me try to highlight some historical events chronologically:

1) The Romans tried to erradicate Christianity;

2) The European Christians used their beliefs to justify the Crusades -arguably an attempt to destroy Islam,

3) Spanish Christians did their turn with the Inquisition -an attempt to keep everybody else in line;

4) in practically all of Central and South America, including colonies in Asia, the European Christians used their belief system as a prop to justify the exploitation (and in the Americas - the extermination) of the native, unbelievers;

5) in America the Salem Witch Hunts were a subjugation of women;

6) European Americans used the fact that the Native Americans had a wholly other belief system and labeled them barbarians and used that as a "right" to destroy the native population;

7) the German Christians used their beliefs to try and exterminate European Jews;

8) in the Indian subcontinent, when India split into the current India and Pakistan, many atrocities were done on both sides in the name of religion;

9) American Christian extremists used their belief to justify the racial attacks on Black Americans;

10) Israel combines its beliefs and politics to justify the control of Palestine;

. . . so perhaps it should be understandable -although still not acceptable- that extremists in the Islamic faith take up arms and try to destroy Christians.

We could argue that the actions of the few extremists in every religion (although the Crusades wasn't exactly "a few", and neither was the European expansion) is not representative of the true faith - but we could say the same things about Islam. In America, practically every Muslim I know participates in rallies and public speaking situations that condemn the actions of these mad people as not being a true representation of Islam. In contrast, when the bombings of abortion clinics happened here in America, I can point to many Christian leaders who would not condemn, and some who actually defended that act.

So I guess what I'm saying here is that, let's be careful what we say here, because very few world religions have clean, unbloodied hands - no matter what the "true" faith says.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by Greatday

To you, church may be a waste of time.

I personally don't care about church at all, but Mcveigh is proof that having gone to church does not rub off on you (read: having gone to church will not prevent you from becoming an terrorist).


Originally Posted by leangk

are you bascically trying to brush off an outright lie you told that makes christians appear bad for no reason?

Funny (not funny ha-ha, but funny in an ironic way) that you accuse me of what I'm accusing you of.
Besidez, whaddaya mean no reason?
Christians aren't holier than non-Christians, simply because they're still sinners (read: Christians are still human, thus fallible).

even a 6 year old, looking on wikipedia could of found out the truth.

Then you either must be younger than 6 years or you simply are blind to the truth.
Every religion has extremists just because a group misbehaves does this mean that the whole religion is bad.
In Ireland the Catholics and the Protestants still can't live together in the same neighbourhood while in the Netherlands this is not a problem.
Heck, even the Bible justifies violence; the only condition is that you do it in the name of God.

anyways.. despite the massive number of christians in the united states, canada, england, france ect, there have been very very very few attacks. almost none in fact

christianity, islam and judaism are supposed to be about peace, acceptance and so on. however in islam we have seen a political hijacking so bad, it has justified the murdering of women and children.

I guess you've never opened a history book (of the world or America)?
Or do you only have a short memory?
Or do you block out all the negative stuff that has been done in the name of God in the past 20 centuries?

i do have a problem with the muslims justifying this killing, and with almost no muslims speaking out against it!! all the funding and money and effort they spend goes to "expelling the stereotypes and rascism".

So far the majority of terrorist actions in America have been done by Americans themselves so I guess you just wanna make the Islam your (personal) scapegoat.
The same way the (Christian) Nazis did with the Jews in their country.
The difference is that the Jews had done nothing to the Nazis, while America has invaded several Islam nations to fight their war on terror.
Dubya is not the 1st who declared war on terror; Reagan started it 1st in S America.
It didn’t end well in S America and I guess it won’t end well in the Middle East either.
Then again, America repeating its past mistakes has been a recurring pattern.

[Heracles]

Originally Posted by leangk

religion is part of the 'social glue" that keeps society functioning. and please, i dont want all the atheists attacking me for this one, its not me who says this, its scientists. more and more studies are finding that religion is in fact nessecary, and simply part of the "human evolution"

Well, I'm an Atheist and I'm attacking you. Please tell me what astute body of scientists has concluded that religion is a necessary social glue. Someone needs to inform the UK that they are about to come 'unglued' due to record low religious affiliation. If anything, religion is a peaceful society repellent.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by Heracles

Well, I'm an Atheist and I'm attacking you. Please tell me what astute body of scientists has concluded that religion is a necessary social glue. Someone needs to inform the UK that they are about to come 'unglued' due to record low religious affiliation. If anything, religion is a peaceful society repellent.

Many communities actually revolve around their churches. In older communities, you will often find the Church in the center of the community.

More young people are identifying themselves as being religious - attendance at churches in college towns is rising - more religious groups on campus being formed.

Religion is not bad - and I would agree that being a part of a religion - is like being part of a community - a community joining together for a purpose.

[leangk]

Originally Posted by leangk

are you bascically trying to brush off an outright lie you told that makes christians appear bad for no reason?

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Funny (not funny ha-ha, but funny in an ironic way) that you accuse me of what I'm accusing you of.
Besidez, whaddaya mean no reason?
Christians aren't holier than non-Christians, simply because they're still sinners (read: Christians are still human, thus fallible).

I said "no reason" because of you made up the fact that man was christian and did it for "christian terrorism". i never said once and never would say "christians are better". i was simply commenting on the fact that you cant jsut make crap up here and start naming people who have done heinious things as "christians" because you like too. you try and proof your point that "christians have terrorists (which they have and do even though they are few) by using the name of someone who wanst even one! thats the "no reason" i was talking about

Originally Posted by leangk

even a 6 year old, looking on wikipedia could of found out the truth.

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Then you either must be younger than 6 years or you simply are blind to the truth.
Every religion has extremists just because a group misbehaves does this mean that the whole religion is bad.
In Ireland the Catholics and the Protestants still can't live together in the same neighbourhood while in the Netherlands this is not a problem.
Heck, even the Bible justifies violence; the only condition is that you do it in the name of God.

did i ever say christians had no terrorists ever? no. did i say islam was bad or have i constantly talked about the people who have "politically hikacked islam". i have said (right on this thread ) that islam is a religion of peace, but that it had been transformed. everybody knows almost all religions have a section which violence is justified. but any real christian would laugh in your face if you said to them "the bible justifies violence so you should go kill someone". we understand now that much of it was a metaphor, and have been able to siphon out the parts that were simply "religious extremis". does the muslim religion do that now? or is it largely accepted that "jihad" is legitimate? yes. thats the huge difference christianity, hinduism, judaism= violence in thier religious books but not generally accepted by the practitioners. islam= violence in thier book but alrgely accepted by millions and millions of thier practitioners.

Originally Posted by leangk

anyways.. despite the massive number of christians in the united states, canada, england, france ect, there have been very very very few attacks. almost none in fact christianity, islam and judaism are supposed to be about peace, acceptance and so on. however in islam we have seen a political hijacking so bad, it has justified the murdering of women and children.

Originally Posted by Tricky D

I guess you've never opened a history book (of the world or America)?
Or do you only have a short memory?
Or do you block out all the negative stuff that has been done in the name of God in the past 20 centuries?

are you actually that stupid? i mean all your other posts have been pretty idiotic but this tops them. are you actually trying to justify violence (in the present) by islamists because christians and other religions did it in the past? I am wella ware of the atrocities commited in the past by and in the the name of the christian religion, but i would like to know how that in any way lessens the severity of what muslims are doing today? im talking about the PRESENT. if you want to look at the past events people have done then jews, christians, hinduists, germans, americans, canadians, british, russians, men, women, gays, straights are all bad!

we are tlaking about the current problem now with muslims. pelase stop being so stupid. honestly i dont know if anyone else is as pissed at TrickyD's messed up logic as i am??

Originally Posted by leangk

i do have a problem with the muslims justifying this killing, and with almost no muslims speaking out against it!! all the funding and money and effort they spend goes to "expelling the stereotypes and rascism".

Originally Posted by Tricky D

So far the majority of terrorist actions in America have been done by Americans themselves so I guess you just wanna make the Islam your (personal) scapegoat.
The same way the (Christian) Nazis did with the Jews in their country.
The difference is that the Jews had done nothing to the Nazis.

just as the majority of terrorist attacks in almost every single country in the past has been mostly done by thier own citizens.. does that somehow make what they are doing now right? we ahve a current problem with islam, its clear. im simply addressing. im not "making them my scapegoat," its just a damn fact

and second of all the nazis werent christian, hitler himself and the party were very anti-christian at times and put a number of them in concentration camps... how embarrassing. yous honestly the stupidest person on this forum. you should just keep stop quiet and embarrassing youself.

youve given a number of false "facts", as well as used you faulty logic to justify current atrocities.

does anyone agree with what im saying? i just want to know if im the only one going crazy trying to understand his logic, or if im completely offtrack and wrong?

[leangk]

Originally Posted by Heracles

Well, I'm an Atheist and I'm attacking you. Please tell me what astute body of scientists has concluded that religion is a necessary social glue. Someone needs to inform the UK that they are about to come 'unglued' due to record low religious affiliation. If anything, religion is a peaceful society repellent.

im not ignoring you, ill respond soon. i almost killed my roomate out of rage from responding to tricky D's reply so itll take me abit