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Old 10-15-2008, 05:41 AM
 
Location: Ottawa, Canada
609 posts, read 1,044,297 times
Reputation: 173

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Funny how America tries to revise history by denying that there isn't a resemblance between the KKK and the Nazis.
I guess the KKK must be radical socialists too?

What most Americans probably also have conveniently forgotten is that they can't condemn Nazi Germany for treating their Jews as 2nd rate citizens, because at the time non-Caucasian Americans are treated the same way in America.
are you serious? the KKK have almost no similarities to the nazis for a number of reasons. first off all we all knwo the Kkkk hate black people. where as the nazis were semi-impartial due to the very very small number of blacks in germany, and tended to focus on the persecution of jews, gypsies, Slavs and homosexuals(although the KKK in also hates them as well as jews)

second of all the history is completely different. The KKK was created after the civil war and was an organization who committed violent crimes, and kept blacks from voting. The Nazis were a socialist party in Germany, and when Hitler took power, it began an aggressive policy of propaganda, street violence and many other tactics until it gianed power. once in power it centralized all unions and government, fired many workers in favor of nazi ones, began a rigorous program of rearmament and eventually began a war when it invaded poland (which england and france had an agreement with).

the KKK have commited random and violent acts over the last 141 years in america with deaths numbering what? less than 100 000?. the nazis party in power (1933-1945) committed a systematic genocide of the jewish people and other groups (numbering 6 million jews alone) during this this time.

ive said it before and ill say it again. read a book. a child could of found out there is a huge huge huge difference between the two. the only similarity i can find is they both hated jews and gays. wow great connection.. i guess there must be a connection then between the kkk and extreme muslims or any other group who shares 1 similarity with them...


[MOD CUT] your comparison of americas treatement of blacks and other "second class citizens" to the Nazis is not only shocking but insulting to my and the other people on this boards intellligence. do you even understand what happened during ww2? some people claim 15-30 million people were killed. 6 million being jews. the rest being gypsies, homosexuals, slavs, serbs, germans, czechs and so on. i think 13 million is a moderate and fair number. to even say that the social/economic/ political oppression of the blacks is similar to genocide is [MOD CUT]

Last edited by Ibginnie; 10-15-2008 at 12:52 PM.. Reason: personal attacks. please refrain from addressing other's intelect
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:31 AM
 
Location: Tolland County- Northeastern CT
4,459 posts, read 6,105,152 times
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Nazi Germany was indeed a Fascist state- which was right wing. The Nazi's and Communists where mortal enemies. Hitler hated the Soviet Union.

Nazi Germany had free health care for 'fit Germans' of Aryan background- and free education- but free health care in Germany dates back to the 1870's, if however you where not able to live up to the Nazi party's view of racial superiority- you got 'nothing' and where likely to be harassed, beaten up or thrown into a concentration camp. Jews, many Slavs, intellectual liberals, some Christian churches, Gypsies, Homosexuals and the mentally or physically challenged where among those not deemed 'fit' for the Fatherland by the false racial theories espoused by the Nazi's.

Both the Soviet Union - an ultra leftist state and Nazi Germany a right wing regime had similarities- both where brutal totalitarian states. There was suppression of the press and media- and opposition was greeted by imprisonment or death.

The main differences where this; In Nazi Germany there was private ownership- and extensive capitalism; corporations like Krups and Mercedes thrived under Hitler and the Nazi's- German companies where given huge tax incentives- as where the wealthy. One private German firm was contracted by the Nazi's to produce Zyklon B- the tablets that where used in the gas chambers.

In the Soviet Union the state owned everything- there was very little private ownership . Additionally despite Stalin's purges of the 1930's, the Soviets did not carry out the massive pogroms that the Nazis did against the Jews.

Also Germany fit the archetypal right wing Fascist regime with extreme nationalism, 'scape goating' and blaming/smearing others for the nations moral decline, and an aggressive preemptive foreign policy.

Last edited by skytrekker; 10-15-2008 at 06:58 AM..
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,034 posts, read 8,095,555 times
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NAZI Germany was in fact a blend of totalatarian(sp) socialist both aspects of the left. The Facist state of the period was of course Italy under Mousalini (sp) One of his favorite quotes was " I am firstly a Socilist then a Facist" Read a book called "Liberial Facisim" The cover says it all.............. "when fascism comes to America, it will not be in brown and black shirts. It will not be with jackboots. It will be Nike sneakers and smiley shirts." George Carlin
Liberal Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by my54ford; 10-15-2008 at 07:09 AM..
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Tolland County- Northeastern CT
4,459 posts, read 6,105,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
NAZI Germany was in fact a blend of totalatarian(sp) socialist both aspects of the left. The Facist state of the period was of course Italy under Mousalini (sp) One of his favorite quotes was " I am firstly a Socilist then a Facist" Read a book called "Liberial Facisim" The cover says it all.............. "when fascism comes to America, it will not be in brown and black shirts. It will not be with jackboots. It will be Nike sneakers and smiley shirts." George Carlin
Liberal Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That is the view of one writer- and that view is open to many interpretations.
Historically and politically Nazi Germany & Soviet Russia fit the ascribed definitions of these two totalitarian regimes , one from the extreme right, and the other the extreme left- Mr. Goldberg's definition, as well as Orwell's tend to be theoretical- and there has yet to be a nation that has fit those views. The views of Goldberg are at best without historical context in any regime of modern times.

Although you are correct, both the left and right are not 'pure' and may have elements of both in their regimes.
In the USA- over the last 100 years, the most leftist President was FDR, followed by Truman, and LBJ- GW Bush has to be called perhaps the most far right era- followed by Reagan. Clinton is considered a more moderate caretaker of the eras conservative/right wing lean.

The USA over the last 30 years has leaned further to the right, since perhaps the 1920s- that perhaps might be changing- and who knows what is next.
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Tolland County- Northeastern CT
4,459 posts, read 6,105,152 times
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Additionally, the term 'liberal fascist' in political terms is cannot truly be a term of use. Liberalism to the extreme left is socialism to communism- and Communism as in the Soviet Union was a totalitarian state.

After all the Great Patriotic War in the Soviet Union and even Russia today was called was the great defeat & victory over Fascism (Nazi Germany)
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:57 AM
 
878 posts, read 1,847,852 times
Reputation: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by skytrekker View Post
Also Germany fit the archetypal right wing Fascist regime with extreme nationalism, 'scape goating' and blaming/smearing others for the nations moral decline, and an aggressive preemptive foreign policy.
I think you're putting the cart before the horse. Read my opening post, the Nazis exemplified left wing ideas.

Alleging that the Nazis were right wing just because they were the enemies of Communism (generally acknowledge as left wing) is a false comparison. Lenin and Martov were strong opponents of eachother, but they were both staunch Communists. If the Nazi/Communist comparison were valid, then we would have to say either Lenin or Martov was a Right-winger. I think we can all agree that is silly.

The United States hasn't leaned far right since the '20s. If anything, we've moved strongly to the left with more socialist programs, more government intervention in individual lives, and a much stronger central government.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:28 AM
 
225 posts, read 306,592 times
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Nazism most certainly did not exemplify a reduced emphasis on nationalism through military aggressiveness (like the modern day left).
Nazism most certainly did not exemplify an emphasis on human rights and civil liberties (like the modern day left).
Nazism promoted a strong and autonomous private sector (like the modern day right).
Nazism was/is based on Christian identity like the KKK, systematically demonizing all who do not fit the mold (like the modern day right).

It looks like someone is trying to simultaneously label the left as Nazis and Communists. I don't see that happening.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:54 AM
 
878 posts, read 1,847,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heracles View Post
Nazism most certainly did not exemplify a reduced emphasis on nationalism through military aggressiveness (like the modern day left).
Nazism most certainly did not exemplify an emphasis on human rights and civil liberties (like the modern day left).
Nazism promoted a strong and autonomous private sector (like the modern day right).
Nazism was/is based on Christian identity like the KKK, systematically demonizing all who do not fit the mold (like the modern day right).

It looks like someone is trying to simultaneously label the left as Nazis and Communists. I don't see that happening.
Actually genocide, racial superiority, and expansionist military actions should not be present in any political affiliation. Neither the modern "right" (conservatives) or "left" (liberals) argue for any of these positions. To equate the KKK (which gave us one of our great Democrat congressmen) to the "right" is smear politics.

My point is that the Nazi party was a socialist party. Socialism is a step on the path to Communism (the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics), which is generally acknowledged as the leftist ideal.

Again I'll pose the question: given that the Nazi (and Fascist) party was socialist, why is the right wing, which opposes a strong government, characterized as Fascist?

I propose that the premise for equating the right with the Nazi party is solely to demonize the right, and has little to no actual factual basis.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Tolland County- Northeastern CT
4,459 posts, read 6,105,152 times
Reputation: 1237
Quote:
Originally Posted by zman0 View Post
I think you're putting the cart before the horse. Read my opening post, the Nazis exemplified left wing ideas.

Alleging that the Nazis were right wing just because they were the enemies of Communism (generally acknowledge as left wing) is a false comparison. Lenin and Martov were strong opponents of eachother, but they were both staunch Communists. If the Nazi/Communist comparison were valid, then we would have to say either Lenin or Martov was a Right-winger. I think we can all agree that is silly.

The United States hasn't leaned far right since the '20s. If anything, we've moved strongly to the left with more socialist programs, more government intervention in individual lives, and a much stronger central government.
Firstly I think you misunderstood my views regarding Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia during the time of Stalin- if you read William L. Shirer's book, The Rise & Fall of the Third Reich' he in fact called the two totalitarian states as 'competing but different ideologies'.

As far as this country being further to the left since the 1920s; I disagree- the USA is hardly where Western Europe was in regards to social safety nets like health care & social security 65- 140 years ago- I hardly call that going to the left- if anything its regressive in terms of the human condition here.

Only the far right in this country- A believer of a now dying ' late 20st Century American Fascism' would really believe this country has veered to the left. If anything we have become a right wing 'Banana Republic'. Fortunately the US Constitution allows us to correct extreme shifts to the far right and left. Any 'swing to the left' now would if anything be a shift to the political center.
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:08 AM
 
878 posts, read 1,847,852 times
Reputation: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by skytrekker View Post
Only the far right in this country- A believer of a now dying ' late 20st Century American Fascism' would really believe this country has veered to the left. If anything we have become a right wing 'Banana Republic'. Fortunately the US Constitution allows us to correct extreme shifts to the far right and left. Any 'swing to the left' now would if anything be a shift to the political center.
While the discussion of whether we've moved right or left might be an interesting discussion for another thread, this one is about whether or not Nazism is properly classified as a "right wing" ideology, based on modern conservativism.
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