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Old 10-20-2008, 01:32 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,522,229 times
Reputation: 1573

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Self-reliance is an illusion, that would be saying that you don't need anyone or anything to survive, which as a fact is untrue.
People eventually become insane when they're put in an isolation cell for a too long period of time.
And once you are in an isolation cell you need others to feed you in order to survive.
And there is no such thing as personal responsibility, since all your actions also affect others; we do not live in a vacuum.
Besidez, if everyone was indeed self-reliant we wouldn’t need a job or a government.

The thing about the American Dream is that you can't earn it, you have to buy it which actually turns the American Dream into a global nightmare; the more people that want to buy land the more expensive land becomes and we've all seen that this scenario can only have a (credit) crisis as a result.
We do not have unlimited land so once you combine a limited resource with unlimited greed a crisis will be the only outcome.

Last edited by Tricky D; 10-20-2008 at 01:46 AM.. Reason: grammar
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Old 10-22-2008, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Southern Maine, Greater Portland
511 posts, read 774,896 times
Reputation: 512
God helps those who help themselves. If we gave people a hand up temporarily instead of an open hand out people would be forced to make the choice to work. Some situations warrant continuing support but I think there is a job for almost everyone, from the Wal-mart greeter to an accountant. Most everyone has a talent of some type to contribute to society, it's just a matter of placement. People have learned how to play the system and the system lets them play.
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Old 10-22-2008, 07:26 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,522,229 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by mainesnowflake
Quote:
from the Wal-mart greeter to an accountant.
The problem with Wal-mart is that they aren't selfreliant and their personal responsability as a company ain't something to write home about either.
Wal-mart employs cheap labour in America and buys bulks of cheap products from sweatshops in the 3rd world.
So what Wal-mart does is eventually excavate national economy by running sweatshops abroad.
Quote:
According to a report by an activist group, workers at one of Wal-Mart's factories in Bangladesh were made to work up to 19-hour shifts and paid as little as $20 a month.
Source:Wal-Mart Supplier Accused of Sweatshop Conditions - BusinessWeek
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Old 10-22-2008, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Orlando, Florida
43,858 posts, read 43,578,099 times
Reputation: 58603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by mainesnowflakeThe problem with Wal-mart is that they aren't selfreliant and their personal responsability as a company ain't something to write home about either.
Wal-mart employs cheap labour in America and buys bulks of cheap products from sweatshops in the 3rd world.
So what Wal-mart does is eventually excavate national economy by running sweatshops abroad.
Well, Tricky D, actually WalMart takes the internet rap for many many store chains in America who purchase from 3rd world countries and pay their employees less than WalMart does (EX: Dollar General, Family Dollar, KMart, etc). Also, you will never see a WalMart not full of customers no matter the day and time. This is not because they are crooks....it is because the offer products that people can afford.

I hate that the mom and pop stores are no longer longer thriving neighborhood stores, but the fact is, they can't compete with WalMart in price so it is the PEOPLE who chose to shop at WalMart instead. WalMart also offers so many types of products....plus being an unbeatably priced grocery store. This is real convenient for shoppers.

So for every one WalMart hater, there are probably a thousand people who think it is the best store around. If it wasn't for WalMart, I wouldn't own half the stuff in my house. Check out their website sometime and you'll see what I mean.
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Old 10-24-2008, 10:38 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,522,229 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by GloryB
Quote:
I hate that the mom and pop stores are no longer longer thriving neighborhood stores, but the fact is, they can't compete with WalMart in price so it is the PEOPLE who chose to shop at WalMart instead.
Are you really tryin' to convince me that WalMart bears no responsibility; that they just provide a service to the customers?
The same thing could be said about drug pushers; Pusher A has put pusher B outta business because his quality of drugs is superior, or maybe because A doesn't employ children under 16 in his drug running (read: moral superiority).

Quote:
So for every one WalMart hater, there are probably a thousand people who think it is the best store around. If it wasn't for WalMart, I wouldn't own half the stuff in my house. Check out their website sometime and you'll see what I mean.
Be that as it may, WalMart only looks out for their consumers ( and only because doing otherwise would be bad for business) and not the people they buy from ( or their employees for that matter).
Just like drug barons don't give a damn about their customers, as long as they're gettin' paid.
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Old 10-26-2008, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,285,245 times
Reputation: 10915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by GloryB Are you really tryin' to convince me that WalMart bears no responsibility; that they just provide a service to the customers?
The same thing could be said about drug pushers; Pusher A has put pusher B outta business because his quality of drugs is superior, or maybe because A doesn't employ children under 16 in his drug running (read: moral superiority).

Be that as it may, WalMart only looks out for their consumers ( and only because doing otherwise would be bad for business) and not the people they buy from ( or their employees for that matter).
Just like drug barons don't give a damn about their customers, as long as they're gettin' paid.

No, the pusher that would win out was the one that could offer more product, or a lower price. Sell it dirt cheap--if I have the choice between two identical items, I buy the generic version EVERY time. Because it's CHEAPER.
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Old 10-26-2008, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,219 posts, read 2,757,681 times
Reputation: 671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Self-reliance is an illusion, that would be saying that you don't need anyone or anything to survive, which as a fact is untrue.
People eventually become insane when they're put in an isolation cell for a too long period of time.
And once you are in an isolation cell you need others to feed you in order to survive.
And there is no such thing as personal responsibility, since all your actions also affect others; we do not live in a vacuum.
Besidez, if everyone was indeed self-reliant we wouldn’t need a job or a government.

The thing about the American Dream is that you can't earn it, you have to buy it which actually turns the American Dream into a global nightmare; the more people that want to buy land the more expensive land becomes and we've all seen that this scenario can only have a (credit) crisis as a result.
We do not have unlimited land so once you combine a limited resource with unlimited greed a crisis will be the only outcome.
Personal responsibility IS a real thing, the way I would describe it is that a person takes ownership of their actions. I could sluff off and get by on government aid, or get into a trade that makes money in a way that I would consider dishonest and survive. Some of us CHOOSE to work honestly and take ownership of our actions instead of blaming someone else for a bad outcome or a negative consequence of said action.

More to come on this, out of time to write for now.... stay tuned
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Old 10-26-2008, 09:30 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,063,674 times
Reputation: 17978
Personal responsiblity is what makes you a contributor to society or a laibilty. Sure you buy the american dream but you do that from earnings which is money' Otherweise you would pay them off in pigs so some such.No matter what anyone says you wil never be given the american dream has to do with eraning and contributing and the rewards that come with it, Not just the material things but a asset to society by producing. This also allows you to help others that are handicapped by contributing part fo what you produce, It adds up in the end by making your life worth more than just consuming. Reguardless of where you live you consume land and space and someone is paying for it. Greed is not in wanting to produce and producing more than you produce. Greed is also producing nothing but wanting it all by hook or crook or politcs;IMO.
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Old 10-26-2008, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,285,245 times
Reputation: 10915
What if you don't seek the "American Dream"? You want to produce enough to provide food and shelter for yourself, but aren't interested in the rampant materialism or consumerism?
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Old 10-26-2008, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,374,882 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
What if you don't seek the "American Dream"? You want to produce enough to provide food and shelter for yourself, but aren't interested in the rampant materialism or consumerism?
Why shouldn't someone seek "the Dream"? Answer: There is no reason they should not.

Having a nice home, a nice car, vacations, the finer things in life are not bad goals.
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