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Old 06-10-2010, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Sneads Ferry NC/Randolph NJ/Cape Coral FL
12,928 posts, read 24,052,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aveojohn View Post
Most of these people have low IQ's and are highly ineducable, they and we need to realize this so they can be trained in jobs that they can handle. Until then I fear they will always be with us. And some will never achieve.
I don't think that is true at all. Do you have a link to facts that back that statement up??

I think it's more laziness and waiting for the first of the month for that welfare check to arrive....the reason the children don't do well in school is because there is no parental involvement..mama is running the streets, don't know who there daddy is and many being raised by a weary worn out grand ma

 
Old 06-10-2010, 06:44 AM
 
Location: NJ
15,904 posts, read 10,958,252 times
Reputation: 10111
Default what's a ghetto? are all ghettos equal?

Many suggestions presented are excellent ideas on how to preserve 'the ghetto'.

Looking at 'the ghetto' as a generic entity is the wrong approach.

Unique and individual people and families, each with his own story, collectively constitute the ghetto just as you would find in a high end neighborhood.

Applying shot cut blanket solutions to solve problems works well in computer programming but not so much in areas of education or a 'class' approach to social problems.

While some good may come from those 'solutions', the success stories are often random and based on the strength of individuals. How many great minds are extinguished in our public schools as individual students are held to standards of thought and behavior by standard teaching methods all in the absence of critical thinking?

Providing free everything to everyone in a designated ghetto as mandated by law, govt program or social pressure is the best way to preserve that subsistence lifestyle. Don't forget we are talking about people, not 'ghettos'. Not everyone can be helped.

We are compassionately compelled to help others but not to provide a lifetime of endless financial support through half assed guilt driven ineffective programs designed by social scientists sucking up to federal grant monies.
 
Old 06-10-2010, 07:08 AM
 
Location: New Kensington (Parnassus) ,Pa
2,424 posts, read 1,812,832 times
Reputation: 603
Default Heres a good article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by njkate View Post
I don't think that is true at all. Do you have a link to facts that back that statement up??

I think it's more laziness and waiting for the first of the month for that welfare check to arrive....the reason the children don't do well in school is because there is no parental involvement..mama is running the streets, don't know who there daddy is and many being raised by a weary worn out grand ma
Where Are All the Fathers? - February 1, 2008 - The New York Sun
 
Old 06-10-2010, 07:57 AM
 
8,666 posts, read 6,338,946 times
Reputation: 3761
Quote:
Originally Posted by aveojohn View Post
I don't buy this for a minute, I believe that many of these men also came from fatherless families and they don't know how to be a father, that coupled with no sense of responsibility and a little laziness.
Well...I believe your opinion is a racist opinion. The beginning of the era of fatherless children is when Children and family were sold away from their families during slavery. It picked up steam when the masters and overseers would have their pick at whatever black women they wanted, regardless of whether or not they had a mate. When a man cannot provide for his family and cannot protect his family.....he feels less than a man and often feels so much shame, in the face of his family that he just runs away from the family. That was the beginning of the destruction of the black nuclear family.

There is absolutely NO reason that black men are less prone to marriage, than are white men, if not for reasons of economics and historical attacks upon the black male. Also, as I pointed out before, welfare required that an adult male cannot be present in the household if that household was to receive assistance. Of course, in 1960, about 60% of blacks lived in poverty....the legacy of 300 years of oppression. Thus, a large percentage of blacks were in need of assistance and since the males could not be in the home, in order for the female and children to get assistance, the system incentivized single parent households and absentee fathers. That said, most educated black men with good jobs are married.
 
Old 06-10-2010, 08:50 AM
 
8,666 posts, read 6,338,946 times
Reputation: 3761
Many of you people just simply do not understand human nature and coping mechanisms. All entities must learn to adapt to survive. Think of the Polar Bear for example. Over thousands of years, Bears learned to adapt and thrive in arctic conditions. Once they learned to adapt for survival in that environment, those adaptations also prevent the Polar Bear from being able to survive in warm dry climates. Adaptation and acclimation comes at a cost. The cost is that it hinders entities ability to survival in a different type of environment.

I cannot speak for other groups, but black people HAD to learn to cope and acclimate to substandard treatment, conditions and opportunities in America. Hence, we as a people learned to be just as happy a white people are with what we had to work with. As an example, take chitlins (or chitterlings…animal intestines). Obviously if you are eating an animal the least desired part to eat would be the intestines. However, during slavery blacks were feed the least desirable parts of animals and vegetables. Guess what happened as a result? Blacks learned to like and find pleasure eating these foods to the degree that a century after slavery ended; these were favorites, if not staples, in the black diet. We learned to find pleasure in a lot of unhealthy things, because that is all we were given to work with. This history contributes to our poor health today because we like a lot of things that are not good for us or we learned to prepare them in such a way to make them taste good, which clogged our arteries and created other health issues.

The thing is this and it’s quite simple. Once you learn to acclimate and even find pleasure while being down…..you have no incentive to get up. Survival for black people was a catch-22. Our learning to acclimate, cope and find pleasure in the condition of poverty reduced our incentive to rise out of poverty. Furthermore, when society expects you to be inferior and failures……you’re hardly letting anyone down by being just that. On the other hand, I believe that being white, especially male, comes with a tremendous amount of expectations and pressures. You are far more likely to hear about a white person, percentage wise, killing his whole family or jumping off a building for economic reasons, than you will hear that for black people. That is because there is tremendous pressure on the white male to be a success because they have sold themselves as “Supreme”. They have propagated the idea that opportunity is infinite and that there is NO reason that anyone cannot be a success in this society other than laziness and irresponsibility. Also, in order to compete for “choice” white women, they realize that they need to be able to afford a nice suburban home, vacations, pay for their Kids College, etc. Ultimately, women drive most of what men do. Men seek status and stature to attract females.

Black people were condition by depravity to learn to appreciate things that were attainable by blacks in a society hell bent on keeping them down by law. Thus, a black man could get good quality black women by just having nice clothes, shoes a car and a job. For a white guy to get the same quality white women, he would need a really good job, a title and education and a lot more. That is because there was not artificial ceiling placed upon white male achievement which meant the top professions, occupations and the like were all dominated by white males which means that the bar of competition for choice white females was really high, because white males had to compete with other very successful white males. Society historically reduced the number of successful black men due to discrimination. Again, ultimately for men it’s all about attracting the women. You see, sex for the rich man is no more pleasurable than it is for the poor man. No matter how much money you make the biology of women are the same. The biology of a poor attractive women is the same as the biology of a rich attractive women. Thus, as along as a “ghetto” man can conquer his environment to the degree that he can get the choice women in that environment, he is as happy as the rich man.

Humans are pleasure seeking. Our biological prime directives are incentivized through pleasure. Our prime directive is survival and procreation. Thus, to encourage this, those acts give us the greatest pleasures. In other words, we need nutrients to survive, which means we have to eat. Hence, eating is one of the greatest sources of human pleasure. We are also biologically programmed to reproduce and hence sex gives our other natural pleasure. When you have lots of wealth you can indulge in an array of artificial pleasures such as adventures, traveling, events, material things and the like. Hence, when you are wealthy you are not forced into spending your time on biological pleasures of eating and sex. Is it any wonder that poor people tend to be over weight and have lots of kids in America? It’s because HUMANS seek pleasure and the cheapest pleasures for the poor are biological pleasures. If they had greater wealth they could spend more of their time with artificial pleasures.

You cannot understand anything socially until you understand HUMAN NATURE! There is not “black human nature” or “white human nature”. There is just HUMAN NATURE. We all seek the same things….happiness and pleasure.
 
Old 06-10-2010, 02:23 PM
 
78 posts, read 53,385 times
Reputation: 70
Forgot to add this to my post:

Did it ever occur to any of you that many of the people living in these ghettos that you look down on actually DO work (and work hard), albeit in generally low paid and menial jobs and are trying to survive as best they can? It's really ignorant (and borderline racist as we are taking about black people) to tar everyone with the same brush and make judgments about people we don't know.
 
Old 06-10-2010, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Lehigh Acres
1,777 posts, read 4,057,339 times
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For some, it all comes down to racism and slavery.


For those of us who comprehend how the world works, and wish to make it work to our advantage, it comes down to hard work and being men.
 
Old 06-10-2010, 07:43 PM
 
8,666 posts, read 6,338,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBMallory View Post
For some, it all comes down to racism and slavery.


For those of us who comprehend how the world works, and wish to make it work to our advantage, it comes down to hard work and being men.
For some it comes down to the present being the creation of the past. For some, who understands how nature works, the present cannot be explained without the past. For some, who understand how the real world works, if you work a people HARD, without compensation, for centuries and you work a people HARD without equal pay and dignity.....you condition them to believe that hard work does not pay. Human nature is not that hard to understand. If you want to encourage a behavior YOU REWARD IT. If you want to discourage a behavior you PUNISH it. Having a people work hard for centuries, without pay, while denigrating them, while dehumanizing them....is the perfect way to kill a work ethic....especially for working for white owners who get the profit from your hard work....just like in the past.

The fundemental law of nature is that actions have reactions. Some of us understand this.....and some of us don't.
 
Old 06-10-2010, 08:28 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,457,074 times
Reputation: 3868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
For some it comes down to the present being the creation of the past. For some, who understands how nature works, the present cannot be explained without the past. For some, who understand how the real world works, if you work a people HARD, without compensation, for centuries and you work a people HARD without equal pay and dignity.....you condition them to believe that hard work does not pay. Human nature is not that hard to understand. If you want to encourage a behavior YOU REWARD IT. If you want to discourage a behavior you PUNISH it. Having a people work hard for centuries, without pay, while denigrating them, while dehumanizing them....is the perfect way to kill a work ethic....especially for working for white owners who get the profit from your hard work....just like in the past.

The fundemental law of nature is that actions have reactions. Some of us understand this.....and some of us don't.
You're absolutely right. Hard work, education, and good choices tend to have positive consequences.

On the other hand, dropping out of school, joining a gang, selling drugs, knocking up girls, shooting people and getting shot at and arrested tend to bring negative consequences.


Of course, I do understand that it's all about racism, excuses and slavery. But the truth is still the truth. EVERY one of us - if we'll stop making excuses for our behavior - CAN improve our lot in life.
 
Old 06-10-2010, 08:36 PM
 
78 posts, read 53,385 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBMallory View Post
For some, it all comes down to racism and slavery.


For those of us who comprehend how the world works, and wish to make it work to our advantage, it comes down to hard work and being men.
Unfortunately, in today's society (ESPECIALLY American society), hard work doesn't always equal success. What you have in the USA is a dog eat dog society; get rich or die trying. Weakness is not tolerated and that notion is driven into you from day one (academic scholarships are not awarded to people who are superior athletes and nothing more in most other countries). To be poor in America is a failure. The poor are looked down on and chastised, which is probably why many of them have no hope and have turned to crime for so many decades. Some people are simply not cut out for college or for the corporate world and some people simply do not want to live a life of servitude to their corporate masters. Black people in the US suffered many decades of segregation and despite the fact that there's now a black president, they still suffer it now, with many calling them "lazy".

I think that if the US toned it down a bit and became more of an easy going and tolerant society, many of the ghettos would disappear and people who are currently disenfranchised and disconnected from mainstream society would be more likely to want to become a part of society, rather than living on the fringe of it. Perhaps if the "haves" of America could just be grateful for what they have instead of chastising the "have nots", that might also help. If there were no shame in being poor, maybe fewer people would resort to crime, or feel the need to "get rich or die trying".

Education is also the key, but that involves more investment in public schools in inner city areas and outreach programs to help people train or retrain to bolster their career prospects. Give people (of any race) the belief that they can succeed and chances are, they'll have a much better chance of doing just that. Reward the ones that do succeed, but ensure that there's a safeguard for those who don't succeed (through no fault of their own).

Just my 2 Euros worth
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