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The article is long, but if you take the time to understand it and read it with objectivity, there is no doubt that in order to get people in the ghetto back on track, the rebirth of the two parent family will be necessary.
The article centers around Daniel Moynihan's paper titled "The Negro Family". Between 1954 and 1964, legal racism was removed and many blacks families were moving up to the middle class. But also the number of single parent families were rising because the women opted for receiving welfare instead of getting married - which manifested itself that many black men were still not getting jobs.
So Moynihan, in his study, wrote...
More than most social scientists, Moynihan, steeped in history and anthropology, understood what families do. They “shape their children’s character and ability,” he wrote. “By and large, adult conduct in society is learned as a child.” What children learned in the “disorganized home[s]” of the ghetto, as he described through his forest of graphs, was that adults do not finish school, get jobs, or, in the case of men, take care of their children or obey the law. Marriage, on the other hand, provides a “stable home” for children to learn common virtues. Implicit in Moynihan’s analysis was that marriage orients men and women toward the future, asking them not just to commit to each other but to plan, to earn, to save, and to devote themselves to advancing their children’s prospects. Single mothers in the ghetto, on the other hand, tended to drift into pregnancy, often more than once and by more than one man, and to float through the chaos around them. Such mothers are unlikely to “shape their children’s character and ability” in ways that lead to upward mobility. Separate and unequal families, in other words, meant that blacks would have their liberty, but that they would be strangers to equality. Hence Moynihan’s conclusion: “a national effort towards the problems of Negro Americans must be directed towards the question of family structure.”
President LB Johnson agreed with this and said...
He described “the breakdown of the Negro family structure,” which he said was “the consequence of ancient brutality, past injustice and present prejudice.” “When the family collapses, it is the children that are usually damaged,” Johnson continued. “When it happens on a massive scale, the community itself is crippled.”
But others took offense at this take on the problem and discounted the paper. Johnson removed the family from his public statements. Critics said Moynihan neglected joblessness and was practicing discrimmination. Furthermore, feminism jumped on the bandwagon in attacking the two parent household in that it stiffled women.
So by the time the 80's came around...
...the out-of-wedlock birthrate among blacks had more than doubled, to 56 percent. In the ghetto, that number was considerably higher, as high as 66 percent in New York City. Many experts comforted themselves by pointing out that white mothers were also beginning to forgo marriage, but the truth was that only 9 percent of white births occurred out of wedlock.
Today, the are a few black conservatives who have called for a refocus on the family - but they are overshadowed by liberal philosophy, NOW, the National Association of Social Workers, the Children's Defense Fund, hip-hop culture (glamorizing ghetto life), and the pro gay marriage lobby. Look what happened to Bill Cosby when he spoke up.
What you say is true. I will also add that the majority of people don’t have a CLUE of what they are missing. I am one of those people who grew up in the ghetto. When I got my first corporate job, after graduating college, I was told by my boss to select a training site. I was to take my pick of any city in the US that offered the training. The options were San Francisco, Miami, Orange County California, Chicago, Dallas, in other words, all the major cities. My first training I picked San Francisco. Then I had to pick a hotel….my choice! Of course, not wanting to spoil a good thing, I initially picked a cheap hotel and when I got there I ate fast food places like Mc Donald’s. So when I returned I turned in my expense report and seen the other expense reports of more seasoned employees. I learned that they when they went to San Fran, they were staying in at the “Embarcadero”, if I recall the name correctly. This was back in the mid 90’s and the hotel was 250 dollars a night and had a beautiful view of San Francisco bay, not to far from the Warf. They expensed 50 dollar means. I could not believe it!!!. Still, I was the only black guy in our department at that time and I was not going to push my luck. I had about 6 weeks of training, with each week representing a different course. So each course I got to pick were I was going to go and by the 3rd course, I was staying at luxury hotels eating at fancy restaurants and hanging out on the town after training and a few hours of study after class. I would arrive the weekend before and bring my girl friend. All she needed was airfare and the hotel was covered. She would fly back Monday usually. I had NEVER experienced anything like that in my life. We never even went on “Vacations” when I was a kid. We just visited family in Mississippi and Chicago. We NEVER went anyplace nice or for tourist…EVER.
I can give a long story but I can tell you that I NEVER, EVER, want to go back to living limited like how I grew up. I NEVER, EVER filled up a car with a full tank of gas until I was around 26 years old. I am not saying that I did not have fun while living in the ghetto, but that fun was usually the type that could very easily get you in trouble….or worse. Man…THIS IS THE LIFE!!!! To have SAVINGS, to be able to pay bills on time, to be able to afford to buy something without it meaning not paying rent or not paying some other bill…..MAN! It’s a peace of mind. To be able to vacation and take my kids on REAL vacations…..Man! If people in the ghetto understood and knew what they were missing and understood and believed that the life I live is attainable by them…..believe me….most would not be living their now. You can’t miss a lifestyle that you never had. I had no CLUE that life could and SHOULD be like this.
Good for you, bro. I bet you enjoy the good life twice as much as many who live it because you had to work twice as hard for it. And you also have the added benefit of perspective, which brings compassion, which means you don't walk around in the sheltered little privelaged bubble that many Americans do wondering why people who live in "ghettos" just don't "get out." Seriously. This post gave me goose bumps. Enjoy your life. Please don't forget to spread the word when you can.
That is indeed a good article. I don’t think that there is any question that children reared in two parent families create a healthier environment. However, one should not assume that just because a women is not married, and has children, that they are not living with a male who may or may not be the father of the child. I know plenty of guys who just don’t want to get married. A friend of mine had 4 kids with girlfriend before he decided to get married. They lived together for about 10 years. My brother has lived with his girlfriend for about 12 years and raised a child. Hence, the absence of marriage does not equal the absence of a male. I think that the 70% out of wedlock birth figure is very deceptive. It’s certainly not true that 70% of black kids are being raised without fathers in their life.
I also want to point out that marriage does not create income. It out of wedlock birth is the problem then it suggests marriage is the solution. However, if two unemployed people get married, how does that create income for the family? If a man if not working and the women is, he is more of a burden than benefit, given that he has to be provided for. The man’s role is as the provider in our society, at least traditionally. The high unemployment rate of the black male is a large factor why more African American males do not assume the role of head of household or marriage partner.
Another thing to consider is this. If out of wedlock births are the problem, then what effect has the tripling of the rate of white out of wedlock births, since the 60’s, had on the standard of living of whites? Another question to ask is why has the poverty rate manage to decline from 60% for blacks, at the beginning of the 60’s, to 24% in 2000 all while out of wedlock births were increasing? In many Scandinavian countries the out of wedlock rate of birth is very high, yet the poverty rate is very low.
People can get out of the ghetto. Its just takes a set of extraordinary circumstances and a lot of luck. I know people on here want to preach and say "They can get out if they want" and the "If they had any social skills" and etc. But like I said before, when growing up in the ghetto, the deck is stacked against you on getting out. The majority of the people in the ghetto don't want to be there, trust me. They would have to try twice as hard just to make it half as good as we have. People make due with what they have. It takes an extraordinary person to make it out. Even those that strive to make it will have haters conspiring to keep them back due to their own shortcomings of making something of themselves. Well like I said before, how many people think they could make it out if they grew up there?
Well, lets see, I made it out.. my wife made it out... guess what it wasnt hard to do.. guess what. there are many that are still there that could get out, but dont want to and/or refuse to.
Good for you, bro. I bet you enjoy the good life twice as much as many who live it because you had to work twice as hard for it. And you also have the added benefit of perspective, which brings compassion, which means you don't walk around in the sheltered little privelaged bubble that many Americans do wondering why people who live in "ghettos" just don't "get out." Seriously. This post gave me goose bumps. Enjoy your life. Please don't forget to spread the word when you can.
Thanks much. You know…..I actually cried from my experience. I could not believe that I had come as far as I had. I often feel a tremendous amount of guilt….because there is nothing SPECIAL about me that make me any more deserving of this than the next guy. That’s what hurts the most. Sometimes when I sit back and look at my family, my job, my home….I can’t enjoy it because I just feel so much guilt for having what I have when so many have so much less.
When I got that same corporate job I called some of my friends that I had grew up with and they could not believe what I was telling them. They thought I was lying and the thing is that I am not even “Upper Class”. However, each one of my friends had a unique circumstance that kept them in the ghetto. My best friend, may the lord rest his soul, was a strait A student in high school, me….I flunked the 11th grade. I had always been told I was intelligent and smart, but high school was periods of my life were I took a wrong turn. Anyway, back to my friend. He grew up in the projects with his mom and several sisters. He had a brother who was physically impaired from birth. He could not talk, walk and existed in bed and wheel chair. My best friend eventually moved out of town and started taking college classes. He said it was the happiest and most optimistic period of his life. Then his mother passed away and there was no one to take care of his sick brother. Hence, instead of seeing his brother put into a home….he dropped everything, his dreams and his plans, to go back to the projects and take care of his little brother. He eventually died at the age of 40, while still caring for his brother and still living in those projects. He deserves the life that I have and there are many, many stories like his, but different, that people don’t see in statistics.
I thank God each and every day for what I have and I pray that others can have it too. I did not make “better choices” and was not more responsible. I just could not cope because I could not compete in that environment. I did not have kids out of wedlock because women did not want to give me play. I had NO game. I could not roll in the streets because I had a mild mannered personality, so I could not be a hustler. I did not develop physically until after high school ( I was 6 ft about 120 lbs…today I am 6’ 195 lb, broad shoulders benching 345 lbs with a 32 inch waist), so I was not good at sports. I hated factory and restaurant work and took the only way out that I saw…..which was education. I went to community college the transferred to a university once I got my grades strait. It took me 6 years to get a Bachelor of Science degree, while working at factories and restaurants.
I am still raw....still have flaws...like poor spelling, but I graduated college with over a 3.0 GPA. I am a work in progress.
That is indeed a good article. I don’t think that there is any question that children reared in two parent families create a healthier environment. However, one should not assume that just because a women is not married, and has children, that they are not living with a male who may or may not be the father of the child. I know plenty of guys who just don’t want to get married. A friend of mine had 4 kids with girlfriend before he decided to get married. They lived together for about 10 years. My brother has lived with his girlfriend for about 12 years and raised a child. Hence, the absence of marriage does not equal the absence of a male. I think that the 70% out of wedlock birth figure is very deceptive. It’s certainly not true that 70% of black kids are being raised without fathers in their life.
I can agree with what you are saying about living together - although I think the statistical affect is minimal.
70% of course is not exact - but I think we know it's way too high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant
I also want to point out that marriage does not create income. It out of wedlock birth is the problem then it suggests marriage is the solution. However, if two unemployed people get married, how does that create income for the family? If a man if not working and the women is, he is more of a burden than benefit, given that he has to be provided for. The man’s role is as the provider in our society, at least traditionally. The high unemployment rate of the black male is a large factor why more African American males do not assume the role of head of household or marriage partner.
I think you missed the point on this. Marriage allows the proper focus on the children for the next generation. I laughed to myself when you suggested two unemployed people getting married because that will not happen with my kids. What father would give his daughter away to a man without a job? In a proper family structure, two unemployed people marrying should not happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant
Another thing to consider is this. If out of wedlock births are the problem, then what effect has the tripling of the rate of white out of wedlock births, since the 60’s, had on the standard of living of whites? Another question to ask is why has the poverty rate manage to decline from 60% for blacks, at the beginning of the 60’s, to 24% in 2000 all while out of wedlock births were increasing? In many Scandinavian countries the out of wedlock rate of birth is very high, yet the poverty rate is very low.
I don't know about the rest of your claims here.
I do find it interesting that you spent most of your post lifting up alternatives to the family unit when those options are clearly not the better choice. Why?
I can agree with what you are saying about living together - although I think the statistical affect is minimal.
70% of course is not exact - but I think we know it's way too high.
I think you missed the point on this. Marriage allows the proper focus on the children for the next generation. I laughed to myself when you suggested two unemployed people getting married because that will not happen with my kids. What father would give his daughter away to a man without a job? In a proper family structure, two unemployed people marrying should not happen.
I don't know about the rest of your claims here.
I do find it interesting that you spent most of your post lifting up alternatives to the family unit when those options are clearly not the better choice. Why?
I have not lifted up alternatives. My point is that a two parent household does not automatically mean "functional". There are two parent households were the father beats and abuses both with wife and children. There are also single parent households were the mother is economically well off and the children get guidance from other male family members who take them under their wing. Marriage is a SOCIAL CONSTRUCT...not a BIOLOGICAL CONSTRUCT. What young males needs to to be loved and postive male role models. What young females need is to be loved and have positive female role model. In the village construct, that existed in Africa, THE VILLAGE raised the children and not just the biological mother and father. The extended family did as well. If a male died someone, usually a brother, would step in to fill the role. Traditional African society was never dependent solely on a parent for the survival of children, because the Villiage was all involved in teaching and rearing children.
I agree that in our system of INDIVIDUALISM that, as a general rule, a two parent family is best. However, male members of the extended family and community step up.....then they can fill the void. I would not say that it is common that this happens in America...but it does happen and as I noted those raw statistics are misleading. You need boots on the ground to really see what is happening in each case.
I think the REAL big picture is that the American culture and society as a whole is disintegrating. Its akin to a vrus going around. Who is most likely to be endangered by a virus? Those most likely to be hurt by it are those with already compromised or weak immune systems. If you take the black community, we have a compromised socioeconomic immunity system, from years of oppression of which we never fully recovered from. Thus, black people are impacted harsher by the virus of cultural and economic decline in America. Nearly every statistic that has worsened for blacks, over the last 40 years, has also worsened for whites. That tells me there is general downward trend that is not specific to black, but that impacts blacks greater because of our already vulnerable condition. I mean look at things around you....our economy is walking the tight rope of collapse. Black people did not cause that problem.
some of what you say, is fine.. but saying that it is important to set conditions for them... guess what, the conditions are there.... people get themselves out of poverty and out of the ghetto all the time, so there is nothing holding a person back, but themselves.
Either I was not very clear or you missed the point. Regardless, the point is that people to some degree can be trapped with a type of mentality as a group which can make it difficult to escape. Improving the conditions can help for more people to see more clearly for them to be able to look for opportunities that maybe are not there in their environment. It take times. To me the condition may be there to some degree but they can be better for more people to get out of that situation. A group mentality does not affect everybody and that is the reason some do look for ways to get out of that.
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Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 06-08-2010 at 10:13 PM..
What you say is true. I will also add that the majority of people don’t have a CLUE of what they are missing. I am one of those people who grew up in the ghetto. When I got my first corporate job, after graduating college, I was told by my boss to select a training site. I was to take my pick of any city in the US that offered the training. The options were San Francisco, Miami, Orange County California, Chicago, Dallas, in other words, all the major cities. My first training I picked San Francisco. Then I had to pick a hotel….my choice! Of course, not wanting to spoil a good thing, I initially picked a cheap hotel and when I got there I ate fast food places like Mc Donald’s. So when I returned I turned in my expense report and seen the other expense reports of more seasoned employees. I learned that they when they went to San Fran, they were staying in at the “Embarcadero”, if I recall the name correctly. This was back in the mid 90’s and the hotel was 250 dollars a night and had a beautiful view of San Francisco bay, not to far from the Warf. They expensed 50 dollar means. I could not believe it!!!. Still, I was the only black guy in our department at that time and I was not going to push my luck. I had about 6 weeks of training, with each week representing a different course. So each course I got to pick were I was going to go and by the 3rd course, I was staying at luxury hotels eating at fancy restaurants and hanging out on the town after training and a few hours of study after class. I would arrive the weekend before and bring my girl friend. All she needed was airfare and the hotel was covered. She would fly back Monday usually. I had NEVER experienced anything like that in my life. We never even went on “Vacations” when I was a kid. We just visited family in Mississippi and Chicago. We NEVER went anyplace nice or for tourist…EVER.
I can give a long story but I can tell you that I NEVER, EVER, want to go back to living limited like how I grew up. I NEVER, EVER filled up a car with a full tank of gas until I was around 26 years old. I am not saying that I did not have fun while living in the ghetto, but that fun was usually the type that could very easily get you in trouble….or worse. Man…THIS IS THE LIFE!!!! To have SAVINGS, to be able to pay bills on time, to be able to afford to buy something without it meaning not paying rent or not paying some other bill…..MAN! It’s a peace of mind. To be able to vacation and take my kids on REAL vacations…..Man! If people in the ghetto understood and knew what they were missing and understood and believed that the life I live is attainable by them…..believe me….most would not be living their now. You can’t miss a lifestyle that you never had. I had no CLUE that life could and SHOULD be like this.
I got a little choked reading this. Good for you, good for you for reaching for something when you didn't even know what you could get or if you would be slapped down.
I am white and grew up in an all-white neighborhood in a small town. I thought we were the poor family on the block--there were 7 kids, and my grandmother lived with us. My parents didn't buy new cars, only used, and we never ordered pizzas and only ate out once a year on Mother's Day. I was the 4th kid and had to wear hand-me-downs before I got new stuff. No one else on my street or any of my friends had to live like this. On vacations, while other kids flew to Europe or Florida, we did car trips upstate New York and the Poconos. We were the last people I knew to get a color TV, because my parents wouldn't buy one while the old B&W still worked. It was SO embarrassing.
Then I grew up and got a job in Manhattan and met people who had grown up in the ghetto or in other situations beyond anything I ever knew about, and I realized I had grown up rich. My parents HAD two cars, they owned their own home, my father always had a job, we never ever missed a meal. I always had a coat in winter, always had a pair of school shoes and a pair of church shoes, and they fit. There was always heat. We played outside and didn't worry about not being safe.
My parents were simply frugal because they'd grown up poor, and they believed in giving part of their money to help REAL poor people. They did not waste money and they didn't care if they had the latest model car or TV or fashions or whatever. As I said, I now know how rich I was.
Thanks much. You know…..I actually cried from my experience. I could not believe that I had come as far as I had. I often feel a tremendous amount of guilt….because there is nothing SPECIAL about me that make me any more deserving of this than the next guy. That’s what hurts the most. Sometimes when I sit back and look at my family, my job, my home….I can’t enjoy it because I just feel so much guilt for having what I have when so many have so much less.
When I got that same corporate job I called some of my friends that I had grew up with and they could not believe what I was telling them. They thought I was lying and the thing is that I am not even “Upper Class”. However, each one of my friends had a unique circumstance that kept them in the ghetto. My best friend, may the lord rest his soul, was a strait A student in high school, me….I flunked the 11th grade. I had always been told I was intelligent and smart, but high school was periods of my life were I took a wrong turn. Anyway, back to my friend. He grew up in the projects with his mom and several sisters. He had a brother who was physically impaired from birth. He could not talk, walk and existed in bed and wheel chair. My best friend eventually moved out of town and started taking college classes. He said it was the happiest and most optimistic period of his life. Then his mother passed away and there was no one to take care of his sick brother. Hence, instead of seeing his brother put into a home….he dropped everything, his dreams and his plans, to go back to the projects and take care of his little brother. He eventually died at the age of 40, while still caring for his brother and still living in those projects. He deserves the life that I have and there are many, many stories like his, but different, that people don’t see in statistics.
I thank God each and every day for what I have and I pray that others can have it too. I did not make “better choices” and was not more responsible. I just could not cope because I could not compete in that environment. I did not have kids out of wedlock because women did not want to give me play. I had NO game. I could not roll in the streets because I had a mild mannered personality, so I could not be a hustler. I did not develop physically until after high school ( I was 6 ft about 120 lbs…today I am 6’ 195 lb, broad shoulders benching 345 lbs with a 32 inch waist), so I was not good at sports. I hated factory and restaurant work and took the only way out that I saw…..which was education. I went to community college the transferred to a university once I got my grades strait. It took me 6 years to get a Bachelor of Science degree, while working at factories and restaurants.
I am still raw....still have flaws...like poor spelling, but I graduated college with over a 3.0 GPA. I am a work in progress.
Like you, I grew up ghetto too, so I feel much of what you're talking about. I haven't succeeded as much as you have (the military was my ticket out), but I have climbed high enough to realize just how fortunate I am. And fortunate is the word for it. Anyone who is successful will tell you luck (and the grace of God) play a large role. I, too, am haunted by faces of good guys with big hearts and great spirits who either died young or went nowhere, victims of circumstance.
Seriously though.. don't feel guilty. You were given a gift, and I believe you were given it for a reason. Just by living and showing it can be done is an inspiration... I hope you (and I) never grow cold and hard towards those who didn't make it.
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