Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
From this, I draw the logical conclusion that you are against Universal Healthcare. Correct?
What is coming, leftydan6, is the classic "public burden" argument. We've seen this argument many times regarding many different subjects, and it is a specious argument. It is, for some reason, only applied to so-called burdens which that speaker is against, never across the board. Otherwise, we'd hear it about obesity, air pollution, water pollution, automobiles in general, auto insurance, mountain climbing, parachuting, etc., etc., etc.
What is coming, leftydan6, is the classic "public burden" argument. We've seen this argument many times regarding many different subjects, and it is a specious argument. It is, for some reason, only applied to so-called burdens which that speaker is against, never across the board. Otherwise, we'd hear it about obesity, air pollution, water pollution, automobiles in general, auto insurance, mountain climbing, parachuting, etc., etc., etc.
*shrug* But it is a matter of the public burden. If you expect the taxpayers to bail you out of the consequences of your own choices, you lose any ground to demand that they butt out of the very conduct for which they are to pay the bill. Whether or not the government should actually regulate a private activity that results in financial exposure to the public is subject to other considerations as well -- namely, the costs and practicality of regulation -- but this does not undermine the fact the State has a legitimate interest in regulating an activity that implicates the public fisc. Thus, I simply don't see how support for universal health care coverage is consistent with arguments in favor of absolute freedom to render oneself a public charge.
By the way: contrary to your sweeping generalization, I do apply this principle across the board. (I also find it amusing how you went ahead and ascribed to me a whole slew what I suppose are "classical" political positions in your view. You assumed, in particular, that just because I question the validity of leftydan's basis for legalizing pot, I must be against environmental regulation, consumer protection or nutritional quality control. Stereotype much?) It is the idea that the government should leave us the hell alone to make our private messes, then come in and clean them up using public funds -- that is truly specious.
Can someone give one good argument as to why pot should not be legalized? I can't think of anything, the potential benefits as I see them are:
1.) Reduced speeding on law enforce related to pot.
2.) Tax revenue from growers and retailers which currently pay no taxes. You could also add additional taxes to retail sales much like the sale of tobacco products.
3.) Reduce drug related crime.
4.) Reduced the number of dangerous individuals coming into the country to smuggle drugs.
Yes...i can think of at least one good reason ; it is hallucinary for most when taken regularly and it dulls the senses . How safe is that going to be for the Addict as well as his fellow man on the road (assuming the Addict isnt apathetic toward such things) ?
Yes...i can think of at least one good reason ; it is hallucinary for most when taken regularly and it dulls the senses . How safe is that going to be for the Addict as well as his fellow man on the road (assuming the Addict isnt apathetic toward such things) ?
Wow, this is someone who has clearly never been around pot. It does not make one hallucinate, not even the crazy strong stuff in Amsterdam does that. And a person is rarely, if ever, a pot addict. People who regularly smoke pot are not addicted but are habitually trained to use. There's a big difference. A regular pot user can take a vacation to somewhere where there is no pot and still get by...a drug addict will go into withdrawal and might wind up in a hospital.
Did you actually take "Reefer Madness" seriously? Because that's where your view is coming from, and it's pretty funny that someone could be so oblivious to reality that they could actually believe what you just wrote was true.
Wow, this is someone who has clearly never been around pot. It does not make one hallucinate, not even the crazy strong stuff in Amsterdam does that. And a person is rarely, if ever, a pot addict. People who regularly smoke pot are not addicted but are habitually trained to use. There's a big difference. A regular pot user can take a vacation to somewhere where there is no pot and still get by...a drug addict will go into withdrawal and might wind up in a hospital.
Did you actually take "Reefer Madness" seriously? Because that's where your view is coming from, and it's pretty funny that someone could be so oblivious to reality that they could actually believe what you just wrote was true.
Im afraid you were presumptuous of me ; I smoked Pot for 10 years from age 17 to 27 .... sometimes often . I used to go to Partys in homes where Pot was freely flowing and people would sit around listening to Emerson, Lake, and Palmer because it sounded so appealing while high. I routinely witnessed others on Pot either walking erratically, stumbling, and/or driving in a daze . Paranoia was another trait i would see in people who were smoking Pot at the time. As for myself, the very reason i stopped smoking Pot at age 27 was that i was driving down the Interstate at night on my 27th birthday and was going into hallucinations that other motorists were about to crash into me . My concentration level and response time were greatly impaired as were other Pot induced Drivers I rode with back then. Pot today, is far more serious because it is very often deliberately spiked with strong addictive substances ; as with any other illegal drug, the MO of the Growers/Pushers are to in fact get you addicted so you will return for more and more . There are drastic consequences for Pot users who have done it for a long time, and a couple of those include memory impairment and depression ; ive personally witnessed many people who really messed up their lives from a decade or two of looking for that unique experience they thought Marijuana would deliver . Like many other things that our decadent Culture offers , it's a Big lie for the thrill Seeker -- thats why they call it 'DOPE' .
Im afraid you were presumptuous of me ; I smoked Pot for 10 years from age 17 to 27 .... sometimes often . I used to go to Partys in homes where Pot was freely flowing and people would sit around listening to Emerson, Lake, and Palmer because it sounded so appealing while high. I routinely witnessed others on Pot either walking erratically, stumbling, and/or driving in a daze . Paranoia was another trait i would see in people who were smoking Pot at the time. As for myself, the very reason i stopped smoking Pot at age 27 was that i was driving down the Interstate at night on my 27th birthday and was going into hallucinations that other motorists were about to crash into me . My concentration level and response time were greatly impaired as were other Pot induced Drivers I rode with back then. Pot today, is far more serious because it is very often deliberately spiked with strong addictive substances ; as with any other illegal drug, the MO of the Growers/Pushers are to in fact get you addicted so you will return for more and more . There are drastic consequences for Pot users who have done it for a long time, and a couple of those include memory impairment and depression ; ive personally witnessed many people who really messed up their lives from a decade or two of looking for that unique experience they thought Marijuana would deliver . Like many other things that our decadent Culture offers , it's a Big lie for the thrill Seeker -- thats why they call it 'DOPE' .
Pot is rarely spiked with anything, so that's a complete fallacy. Pot dealers are certainly not pushers like crack dealers are. They tend to just be pot smokers who know someone that grows and want to be able to obtain their weed cheaper by buying in quantity and selling whatever they wont smoke. You don't make big bucks as a pot dealer, you only make the real cash selling coke or heroin.
I've looked at your history, and clearly you're someone who needed something in your life. You tried pot, but it didn't give you what you needed, then you tried God and Christianity and now you feel as though you're the only one who knows the truth. While you may have had some experience like that while smoking, I can tell you that hallucinations are only from things like Shrooms, Acid, LSD and Peyote, not pot or even Hashish. I've had hallucinations from sleep deprivation, but not from massive amounts of super-strong hash and pot smoked in Amsterdam.
Many people who smoke pot have very productive lives. I've listed the ones I know on this forum before. In fact, every regular pot smoker I personally know is quite successful in their career. Many have master's degrees, Juris Doctorate and even MDs. Before I started smoking pot, I was a bad student taking just the minimum credits to stay in college, after I started I was able to finish 3.5 years worth of college in 2.5 years while playing on TWO intercollegiate sports teams. Just because YOU can't be productive or aware while on pot does not mean I can't be.
Pot is rarely spiked with anything, so that's a complete fallacy. Pot dealers are certainly not pushers like crack dealers are. They tend to just be pot smokers who know someone that grows and want to be able to obtain their weed cheaper by buying in quantity and selling whatever they wont smoke. You don't make big bucks as a pot dealer, you only make the real cash selling coke or heroin.
I've looked at your history, and clearly you're someone who needed something in your life. You tried pot, but it didn't give you what you needed, then you tried God and Christianity and now you feel as though you're the only one who knows the truth. While you may have had some experience like that while smoking, I can tell you that hallucinations are only from things like Shrooms, Acid, LSD and Peyote, not pot or even Hashish. I've had hallucinations from sleep deprivation, but not from massive amounts of super-strong hash and pot smoked in Amsterdam.
Many people who smoke pot have very productive lives. I've listed the ones I know on this forum before. In fact, every regular pot smoker I personally know is quite successful in their career. Many have master's degrees, Juris Doctorate and even MDs. Before I started smoking pot, I was a bad student taking just the minimum credits to stay in college, after I started I was able to finish 3.5 years worth of college in 2.5 years while playing on TWO intercollegiate sports teams. Just because YOU can't be productive or aware while on pot does not mean I can't be.
1. Pot is more potent than ever before and thus, more addictive.
2. A 'Pot Dealer' is a more palatable term for an Illegal Drug Pusher who sells you an illegal drug for money and who practices psuedo-generostity by occassionally letting you try the latest 'stuff' for free. He becomes your friend just like Marijuana becomes.
3. I tried everything this world has to offer including Pot, sexual immorality, chasing after money, fancy vacations, status, prestige , and education...all of which can never fill the void of ones heart. That is reserved only for God to ultimately fill thru a real and dynamic personal relationship with him. The very purpose of our existence during this time in history.
4. There are many educated, influential , productive members of society who go the wrong road in life and if they do Pot it doesnt exhonorate them .
I leave you with a poem :
"What comes from many will never last,
its here today, tomorrow past.
What comes from God will always be,
the same for all eternity"
Allow the Creator a place in your life and you will have a Friend , forever. Thanks for the exchange. David.
Can someone give one good argument as to why pot should not be legalized? I can't think of anything, the potential benefits as I see them are:
1.) Reduced speeding on law enforce related to pot.
2.) Tax revenue from growers and retailers which currently pay no taxes. You could also add additional taxes to retail sales much like the sale of tobacco products.
3.) Reduce drug related crime.
4.) Reduced the number of dangerous individuals coming into the country to smuggle drugs.
All of this is great, and I certainly agree even though I have not smoked pot in more than 36 years (I grew up and started acting responsible for myself in a society largely opposed to illegal drugs).
I think, though, that there are some of those who make a living from selling the stuff who would lobby against its legalization, primarily because the tobacco industry could easily enter and control this market without much effort. Cannabis could easily overtake tobacco as the king crop for NC, SC and GA.
I'd love to see the stuff sold in liquor stores, and with the same restrictions.
I would have to say I am for the legalization of marijuana.
1. Anyone who has lived life will know that the effects of marijuana and the effects of alcohol are much, much different. If you base your assumptions on "Harold and Kumar Go to Whitecastle," then there is nothing I can do for you. No amount of reason will shed any daylight on your perspective. I don't know what kind of weed you all are smoking, but it will not make you black out and become ridiculous and belligerent like alcohol will. Well, I guess if you consider giggling alot ridiculous, and suffering from a kind of famish that only Totino's can cure, then marijuana might do that. Lazy people do not fight each other. Drunk people love to fight each other. High people do not like to drive when they are high. Drunk people are positive they can drive any vehicle at any time anywhere, even over the median and maybe some people if they happen to be in the way. People who text while driving are almost worse than the drunks. Not only do they swerve uncontrollably, they aren't even looking at the road! I'd be more afraid of a text-happy blonde than a High Times-reading, Jimmy John's -noshing hippie.
2. I'm sure someone stated this already, more people die from alcohol poisoning and alcohol related deaths than marijuana deaths. Marijuana may give you lung cancer. Alcohol may destroy your liver. Fatty foods may destroy your heart. Sugar may destroy your kidneys. And we all know what cigarettes do to you. So the key to this is moderation. If you are stupid enough to not know your limits, then there you are, and nothing can help you except for you to stop being so stupid. And well, if you can't stop being stupid, then whatever you have been so stupid to not stop taking will permanently stop you from being so stupid.
3. More people die (shootings, stabbings) in the illegal trade of marijuana then they do of actual marijuana......
4. People use the argument, "So why don't we just legalize cocaine or meth or LSD?" Because those drugs put you in a state of mind where you are supremely stupid. So stupid you don't know where you are, who you are, or what you are. You are convinced you are a demon, an angel, a tree, a part of the carpet, or that the couch and refridgerator are singing to each other accompianied by the dining room table playing a technicolor violin while you and a centaur made of butter dance the foxtrot. Pot does not make those things happen. Alcohol might, if you're drinking Absinthe and are stupid enough to get that drunk. And if you are seeing those things after you smoke some pot, then someone has laced it with something unpleasant, and you should lodge a complaint with your dealer straight away and demand a refund, exchange, or at least in-store credit.
Meth makes you spend an inordinate amount of time combing the Bible to discern when the end of the world will be nigh so you can build a bomb shelter out of 2x4s and a blue tarp. Heroin will give you some gnarly track marks, some blown-out veins and constant convulsions, and maybe a nice case of AIDS contracted from a shared dirty needle. But, it must be said, alcohol can turn your liver into a pulsing pile of puss, and cigarettes can transform your lungs into hardened, tar-filled pieces of cancer. So, what is the buzz-word, children? Come on, say it with me....Moderation!
5. "Well, you just want it legalized so you can smoke it." Um, duh. Why would that be an argument of any kind? If you don't like alcohol, by all means, do not partake, and I won't see you in the liquor store. If you don't want your kids around it, don't rely on TV PSA commercials to teach them. Raise them as you see fit, and hopefully, if all goes well, I won't see them in the bar in 20 years. I think people are afraid of pot for one reason. Because it is currently illegal. Or maybe because it doesn't come in a can with a sexy lady and football and Clydsdales and all other things warm, comforting and Americana.
6. Legalizing marijuana would significantly reduce the strain on the prison system. Non-violent offenders would not be housed there, and so would go back to work like they had before they were so rudely interrupted. (Ok, I know, it is not good to do things that are against the law, for that they maybe deserve to be ticketed I guess, like they do in San Francisco.) With the newly freed up space and funds, prisons could focus on rehabilitating offenders so they can become a functioning part of society. (Assuming they aren't there for life for doing something irreprehensible while under the influence of alcohol)
7. We could create a new department, the Bureau of MJ. They would monitor the sale, quality, and safety of all marijuana. Maybe they could even create some new jobs. They would function the same as the FDA does with alcohol, you know, how they make sure there isn't any turpentine, lead, or remnants of rats in your gin. That way, everything would be safe and regulated, just the way we Americans like it. And everyone knows how much the American government likes to regulate things. It's a win-win for everyone! (Just kidding, without branches like the FDA to keep our food and drugs safe, we would be like China and full of melanine and tainted dog-food)
8. Police could focus on what they were meant to do; solve murders and robberies, take down gangs that are no longer wasting their time trafficking the readily available commodity that is reefer, using their smelling-eye dogs for finding bombs in airports, combating domestic violence that's fueled by alcoholism and inferiority complexes, writing more traffic tickets for DWT (Driving While Texting), writing more DUI tickets and saving lives by getting impaired people off the roads with more checkpoints.
9. Tax the hell out of it. Tax the hell out of alcohol too. And while your at it, tax the hell out of McDonalds. Their fatty, ground-beef goodness kills more people than marijuana ever will. But their Chicken McNuggets are to die for....especially with honey barbeque sauce......
Sorry for the length of my post, but gol darn it, when I get flustered, I just go all out!
Last edited by lizmyer; 12-09-2008 at 09:34 PM..
Reason: I talk too much
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
