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Old 01-08-2009, 04:29 AM
 
Location: Florida
18,299 posts, read 18,560,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by leftydan6 And this is exactly why the Dutch government isn't in it for the money.
We're not in the business of creating a society where it is easy for the individual to become an addict of hard drugs.
Once your motivation for legalising soft drugs shifts to just making money there will be no reason to not also legalise hard drugs, which truly will be the beginning of the end of society as we know it.
Apples and oranges. All 'drugs' are not created equal.
Even so, legalizing hard drugs doesn't not mean without heavy regulation, such as by prescription only.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:21 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,524,507 times
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Originally Posted by old_cold
Quote:
Apples and oranges. All 'drugs' are not created equal.
Are you saying that soft drugs aren't addictive?
And here I was thinking that what all drugs have in common is that they are addictive; meaning that the addict believes that he needs his poison to function properly in society while this simply is not the case.

And why the hell should hard drugs be available on prescription?
Hard drugs is pure poison, but I guess that hard drug addicts will simply deny this fact.
Otherwise they wouldn't be addicted.

The difference between the Dutch Government legalising soft drugs and criminal organisations profiting from selling it is that criminal organisations will expand their market no matter the consequences for society and the Dutch government won’t. Expanding the market would spell the end of society because that no doubt would include selling hard drugs because it is more profitable than soft drugs.
Why do you think we make a distinction between soft drugs and hard drugs?
Heck many people already have proven that they can't handle alcohol so you can imagine what legalising crack would do to society.

Last edited by Tricky D; 01-08-2009 at 05:31 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:48 AM
 
Location: Florida
18,299 posts, read 18,560,123 times
Reputation: 21014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by old_cold Are you saying that soft drugs aren't addictive?
And here I was thinking that what all drugs have in common is that they are addictive; meaning that the addict believes that he needs his poison to function properly in society while this simply is not the case.
Aspirin and tetracycline are classified as 'drugs' so I'd say you should adjust your thinking.

There's already a long thread about legalizing and controlling harder drugs which isn't the toic of this thread so.....
Legalized Heroin?
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:57 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,524,507 times
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Originally Posted by old_cold
Quote:
Aspirin and tetracycline are classified as 'drugs' so I'd say you should adjust your thinking.
And at 1 point in time opium & morphine were considered a normal medicine.
I suggest you do the adjusting.
BTW are they classified as hard drugs or soft drugs or don't you make that extinction at all?
The problem is that you only view drugs through an economical lens and refuse to see the other effects it has on society.
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:03 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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Originally Posted by old_cold
Quote:
There's already a long thread about legalizing and controlling harder drugs which isn't the toic of this thread so.....
Then stop asking me questions about why I make a clear distinction between hard drugs and soft drugs.
So I'll state it again: I'm for legalising soft drugs, but not hard drugs.
And I'm against opening up soft drugs for the 'free' market cause no drug is free because of it's (highly) addictive nature.
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:13 AM
 
Location: West Texas
2,441 posts, read 5,249,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by old_cold Are you saying that soft drugs aren't addictive?
And here I was thinking that what all drugs have in common is that they are addictive; meaning that the addict believes that he needs his poison to function properly in society while this simply is not the case.
Tricky D... I'm with you on non-legalization, but have given up the battle in here. I have to realize that I'm going to have to agree to disagree with many in here, and that's okay.

But in reference to your statement above, addictiveness is not a requirement to be considered a drug. A drug is defined (in the college textbook I have) as a substance that, when taken, alters the brain or body in some chemical manner.

Where the debate comes in is over the drug being made legal or illegal. There is a system called the legal schedule. There are 4 classifications of "scheduled" drugs. They are determined by both the medicinal properties of the drug, and addictiveness of it. Schedule 1 drugs have the least medicinal value, and the highest addictive nature, and it lessens with each schedule number.

Many of the arguments, specifically against marijuana, is that it DOES have medicinal value (I know of a friend of my mom's who takes it per a doctor's orders to deal with the pain from her Lupus (autoimmune disease)), and it is not proven addictive unless the THC chemical is taken in VAST amounts (which no person to my knowledge has done yet). The more a drug is removed from the schedule 1 list, the better the argument for legalizing it. So, from the medicinal and legal schedule it's hard to argue against legalization. My standpoint is from further legalizing anything that impairs brain functioning (which marijuana does - proven) although many people argue falsly against it.

So, addictiveness is a factor in determining the legality of a drug (against it's medicinal value) but is not a "common factor" in all drugs.
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:41 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,524,507 times
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Originally Posted by Rathagos
Quote:
So, addictiveness is a factor in determining the legality of a drug (against it's medicinal value) but is not a "common factor" in all drugs.
I only know that hard drugs are highly addictive and as far as I know cannot be used for medicinal purposes.
And soft drugs are not as addictive as hard drugs and they can be used for medicinal purposes.
In reality it isn’t that black & white because there are people who take such great amounts of soft drugs that it could be considered a hard drug and then you have those people who can handle hard drugs as if they were as mildly addictive as soft drugs (except they can't maintain that for a long period of time).
The main distinction we make is that soft drugs are those drugs we consider legal here in The Netherlands and hard drugs are simply the illegal kind.
Alcohol and nicotine are considered hard drugs which have been accepted by our society.
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:20 PM
 
3,876 posts, read 7,426,704 times
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Go online and try to find Savage's rant last night on Marijuana. In todays age is it really neccessary to have this as a priority? The answer is no!
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:47 PM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,847,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
And why the hell should hard drugs be available on prescription?
Cause they already are...durr!

Oxycontin
Morphine
Dilaudid
Percocet
Vioxx

Seriously, do you know anything about Pharmaceuticals? Many of them are poison, many of them are addictive (most Heroin addicts get that way because they are first addicted to legally prescribed opiates) and all of them can destroy lives.

Why do you think they call Oxy "Hillbilly Heroin"?

Why can't there be a distinction? We have alcoholic beverages that are only sold to 21 year olds and Coca-cola with caffiene that is sold to anyone with some loose change.

Heath Ledger died as the result of acute intoxication by the combined effects of oxycodone, hydrocodone, diazepam, temazepam, alprazolam and doxylamine. It was also stated definitively: "We have concluded that the manner of death is accident, resulting from the abuse of prescription medications."

All of those lethal drugs are legal.
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:51 PM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,847,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loose cannon View Post
Go online and try to find Savage's rant last night on Marijuana. In todays age is it really neccessary to have this as a priority? The answer is no!
Yeah, cause a conservative commentator's opinion is far more valid than hundreds of scientists and political analysts. In today's age, it's absolutely necessary to CUT SPENDING AND INCREASE TAX REVENUE, and you know one place we can do that? Legalization and taxation of marijuana, a $15,000,000,000+ yearly industry that puts a staggering 1,000,000 people behind bars per annum. The sheer cost of those arrests and the time wasted by cops on booking and processing those non-violent pot smokers could be spent solving the 60%+ of murders that go unsolved in Chicago, or the robberies that never get solved.

You have yet to actually say WHY Savage's opinion was so convincing, just that he's so smart.
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