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Old 10-20-2008, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Texas
42,262 posts, read 49,821,133 times
Reputation: 67103

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
I have'nt messed around with pot since High school ( pushin' 30 years) but from my memories of it the stuff has less harmful effects than alcohol hands down. I've never heard of anyone takin' a notion to beat up thier wife or black out and end up in the ER with toxicity from smoking pot.
Then you don't work in an ER.

I love beer. A lot. But if we could blink alcohol out of existence so that we don't have all the social problems caused by it, I would give it up happily.

I would gladly legalize everything if people would just stay at home and do their own thing there. At least they could have some quality control that way and decrease their chances of OD or getting into some other toxic substance that may have been mixed in. But the general public is too stupid/irresponsible, they don't stay home, too many people go out and get into trouble, and the cost to society is too high (not to mention I have to deal with them on a daily basis in my ED, and they are usually quite annoying and sometimes dangerous patients). No, thanks.
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Old 10-20-2008, 01:42 PM
 
Location: West Texas
2,441 posts, read 5,249,050 times
Reputation: 3094
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
If you live in a country that supposedly exalts the notion of individual freedom, how is it your business what a grown person does on his or her own time with his or her own money? As long as minors are not involved and the person in question does not endanger life and property, then I fail to understand how the public interest is strong enough to intervene.
CPG, I return the respect... much so. And I fully understand the bottom line of what's being asked (of you and the OP). Simply put:

1. Who cares what you do on your own time, as long as no one is hurt.
2. Marijuana is not as impacting as alcohol (or dependence building).
3. We should treat marijuana like alcohol and tobacco and just sell it legally making money off of taxes.

Those all make sense on the surface, and they are true to a point. But I refer to the old saying "Do two wrongs make a right?"

Alcohol (the consumption of) has led to many deaths. Either through liver damage, drunk driving, or other effects (bar fights, etc.). But there is one issue I just can't get out of my head.

The issue with alcohol is impairment. I don't think anyone's ever complained about someone having one or two drinks. It's at the point that someone becomes impaired that they make bad decisions. If that point is correct, then we double the amount of people we put on the street impaired (two wrongs don't make a right). There are people now who smoke pot, get high, and drive. Their impairment is not "better" than drinkers. And, those irresponsible people who drink will be increased on the road or at jobs by other irresponsible people who smoke pot. Let's not fake it and say everyone who smokes pot and get's high will just "chill" on their couch. I just think legalizing will take fence-sitters who don't do it now because it's illegal, and give them a legitimate reason to get it, smoke it, and make bad decisions under the influence.

It's too simple to say "what happens at home stays at home, that's their freedom." Because, like drinkers, they become impaired and leave their home to go get "munchies." Now, we have impaired drivers on the road.

I don't care what math you use, two wrongs do not make a right.
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Old 10-20-2008, 02:32 PM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,240,795 times
Reputation: 45820
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rathagos View Post
CPG, I return the respect... much so. And I fully understand the bottom line of what's being asked (of you and the OP). Simply put:

1. Who cares what you do on your own time, as long as no one is hurt.
2. Marijuana is not as impacting as alcohol (or dependence building).
3. We should treat marijuana like alcohol and tobacco and just sell it legally making money off of taxes.

Those all make sense on the surface, and they are true to a point. But I refer to the old saying "Do two wrongs make a right?"

Alcohol (the consumption of) has led to many deaths. Either through liver damage, drunk driving, or other effects (bar fights, etc.). But there is one issue I just can't get out of my head.

The issue with alcohol is impairment. I don't think anyone's ever complained about someone having one or two drinks. It's at the point that someone becomes impaired that they make bad decisions. If that point is correct, then we double the amount of people we put on the street impaired (two wrongs don't make a right). There are people now who smoke pot, get high, and drive. Their impairment is not "better" than drinkers. And, those irresponsible people who drink will be increased on the road or at jobs by other irresponsible people who smoke pot. Let's not fake it and say everyone who smokes pot and get's high will just "chill" on their couch. I just think legalizing will take fence-sitters who don't do it now because it's illegal, and give them a legitimate reason to get it, smoke it, and make bad decisions under the influence.

It's too simple to say "what happens at home stays at home, that's their freedom." Because, like drinkers, they become impaired and leave their home to go get "munchies." Now, we have impaired drivers on the road.

I don't care what math you use, two wrongs do not make a right.
Using that logic, then, alcohol should be made illegal, too. Right?
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Old 10-20-2008, 02:47 PM
 
8,415 posts, read 34,352,672 times
Reputation: 6197
I dont think its should be legal. Mixed with the chemicals in popular drugs who knows what could happen. Have they studied all those yet? Probably not and they need to.
Pot does create dependence otherwise the term "pothead" would not exist. I have seen others "freakout" even when not high. The chemical half life of weed stays in the body for at least 3 days. Alcohol doesnt. Bulid up a chemical with psychotropic qualities in the body and those prone to mental illness will react in a negative manner.

Its too easy to grow and dust with other things. How will you know if your stuff is dusted with opium, PCP or coke or crack. You wont. And you know that growers WILL add stuff to the product just like food makers add sugar to keep you coming back.

But simply put its just not studied enough to treat it lightly or legally.
And I think the problems with drinking clearly point out that humans cant control themselves.
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Old 10-20-2008, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,294,119 times
Reputation: 10915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post


I said "reduce" not eliminate. It would reduce costs as the jails would not be filled with a bunch of people that were caught with marijuana yet committed no other crimes.
What about the crime of driving under the influence of pot?

By they way, why would people pay taxes on it if they could grow their own...just like you can distill or ferment your own alcohol?
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Old 10-20-2008, 04:17 PM
 
2,180 posts, read 3,188,814 times
Reputation: 838
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
By they way, why would people pay taxes on it if they could grow their own...just like you can distill or ferment your own alcohol?
Haven't you answered your own question here?

While there are people who make their own alcohol, they are few and far between. Similarly, already, one can grow one's own pot, and yet people keep buying it. Why one might think that would change more than a little if it were legalized is beyond me.
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Old 10-20-2008, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,327,345 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr74 View Post
This drug state we live in is dangerous and you ant to legalize it?
Yeah, because what your neighbor does in his free time is really none of your business. Or course, he shouldn't sell or give pot to minors just as he shouldn't give alcohol to minors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
What about the crime of driving under the influence of pot?

By they way, why would people pay taxes on it if they could grow their own...just like you can distill or ferment your own alcohol?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
What about the crime of driving under the influence of pot?

By they way, why would people pay taxes on it if they could grow their own...just like you can distill or ferment your own alcohol?
Driving under the influence is already a crime and should remain a crime. Also, as with alcohol the process is hard enough to prevent most people from growing it themselves. Just as most people don't grow their own produce...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pitt_transplant View Post
Its too easy to grow and dust with other things. How will you know if your stuff is dusted with opium, PCP or coke or crack. You wont. And you know that growers WILL add stuff to the product just like food makers add sugar to keep you coming back.
This is really an argument for legalization. If you legalize it you can regulate it. You can easily do the same things to cigarettes yet it isn't done. Marijuana should only be sold if its 100% Marijuana.
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:06 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,524,507 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by cpg35223
Quote:
Using that logic, then, alcohol should be made illegal, too. Right?
True and the only reason that will not happen is because alcohol is socially accepted ( and the fact that alcohol is big business).
We already believe that drinking beer will make you a man instead of an alcoholic, because only true men overcome their addiction, right?


Originally Posted by Humanoid
Quote:
Driving under the influence is already a crime and should remain a crime.
The fact that driving under the influence already is a crime does not stop people from driving under the influence.
But I guess that alcoholics and potheads will never get it; driving a car also endangers others and not just yourself, so 'personal freedom' is an empty argument.
No victim ever asked to be hit by a drunk driver and yet this happens daily.
Quote:
If you legalize it you can regulate it.
You must be high, the problem with addicts is that they can't control their addiction (otherwise they wouldn't be addicted) and if you can't control your addiction you can't control your behaviour.
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,294,119 times
Reputation: 10915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post

Driving under the influence is already a crime and should remain a crime. Also, as with alcohol the process is hard enough to prevent most people from growing it themselves. Just as most people don't grow their own produce...

But how much money is being spent on the enforcement of "under the influence" laws?

It isn't the DIFFICULTY that's the problem--the problem is the Revenuers. They'll destroy a man's still...even today!
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,327,345 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
The fact that driving under the influence already is a crime does not stop people from driving under the influence.
But I guess that alcoholics and potheads will never get it; driving a car also endangers others and not just yourself, so 'personal freedom' is an empty argument.
People are going to smoke pot whether its legal or not. In most states the cops don't even care about marijuana anymore. Like prohibition its mainly the selling of marijuana that is illegal. Whether or not the legalization of marijuana will increase its use is an open question. But I would suggest the people that don't smoke pot because its illegal and perhaps would once its legalized aren't the people that will drive under the influence. They've already show they follow laws...after all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
You must be high, the problem with addicts is that they can't control their addiction (otherwise they wouldn't be addicted) and if you can't control your addiction you can't control your behaviour.
No idea what you're talking about. I was referring to the way marijuana is mixed with other drugs. Once made legal you can successful regulate it and remove most of the more harmful marijuana from the streets.
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