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Old 02-10-2009, 05:12 AM
 
18,826 posts, read 10,963,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
If you'd like to make a case for why/how drug use enhances quality of life (short of somebody being in constant pain due to a medical condition) then please, enlighten me, explain why we should squander the limited time we have in life, baked out our minds, strung out on dope, and barely able to move due to the smack surging through our veins.
Well, it seems for you that all experience with chemicals falls under an umbrella of 'bad'. For some people, using chemicals leads down one road, and one road only and I understand this. Obviously, we're not all the same. Chemicals can be enjoyed without harm. For example, my husband and I enjoy wine. In his past life, he was a fine dining waiter so he's very knowledgable in wine/food pairing and wine in general. We attend wine expos, pariticipate in vinyard tours/vacations. I have found developing a palate for fine wine and aged scotch to pretty enjoyable.

As far as non-alcohol drugs go, again, it depends on the person, the chemical, and intent. I have little patience for heroine, crack/cocaine, and the like. But, I can appreciate maryj even though it's not something I engage in personally. I have known connoisseurs and have found that buds can be as varied as wine.

Quote:
nor can I think of anybody who says, "drugs made me the great man I am today!"
It's such a taboo subject that it's unlikely folk would discuss beneficial experiences derived from psychedelic drug use. The days of Timothy Leary seem to be long gone. As far as psychedelics go, as Leary stated, they probably should only be undertaken by the "bold, the beautiful, and the brave". Just the same, endeavors in altered states of consciousness is a part of human history; from shamanism, to meditation, to therapies. Chemicals will give an altered perspective and this can be a benefit or create harm. Again, it depends on the person and the intent.
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:17 AM
 
18,826 posts, read 10,963,562 times
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I've come across this research before, but here's NY times article discussing it.

"The Dutch generally use drugs less than Americans do, according to national surveys in both countries (and these surveys might understate Americans' drug usage, since respondents are less likely to admit illegal behavior). More Americans than Dutch reported having tried marijuana, cocaine and heroin. Among teenagers who'd tried marijuana, Americans were more likely to be regular users."
Lighting Up In Amsterdam - New York Times

Yes, Americans are more likely to try maryj compared to the dutch, where (Amsterdam) maryj is legal. What does this tell us? Imo, it's not about the chemical itself but our culture that embraces taboos.
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Old 02-10-2009, 09:34 AM
 
1,327 posts, read 1,706,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
I've come across this research before, but here's NY times article discussing it.

"The Dutch generally use drugs less than Americans do, according to national surveys in both countries (and these surveys might understate Americans' drug usage, since respondents are less likely to admit illegal behavior). More Americans than Dutch reported having tried marijuana, cocaine and heroin. Among teenagers who'd tried marijuana, Americans were more likely to be regular users."
Lighting Up In Amsterdam - New York Times

Yes, Americans are more likely to try maryj compared to the dutch, where (Amsterdam) maryj is legal. What does this tell us? Imo, it's not about the chemical itself but our culture that embraces taboos.
I remember drinking was so much more fun before I turned 21. Once I turned 21 and became legal some of the luster wore off. There was something exciting about doing something that was not allowed and the pursuit of getting alcohol. Makes sense with alcohol's drinking age and MJ usage. It would take a while for the impact of MJ becoming legal as I think many would use it but then it would wear off where it's not a big thing especially with younger kids.
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:34 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 704,757 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
If you'd like to make a case for why/how drug use enhances quality of life (short of somebody being in constant pain due to a medical condition) then please, enlighten me, explain why we should squander the limited time we have in life, baked out our minds, strung out on dope, and barely able to move due to the smack surging through our veins.

Please, explain it to me...

Plain and simple, drugs are a crutch, nothing more.

I could rattle off dozens of names of people I know who wasted years on drugs. I cannot think of anybody who used to do drugs, who now says, "drugs were wonderful I wish I was still using them!" nor can I think of anybody who says, "drugs made me the great man I am today!"

Drugs are a crutch, scratch that, they're an impediment, an impediment to personal development and progress.
Clearly someone who knows nothing about marijuana.

"Strung out on dope" umm, that's not marijuana.

"Barely able to move due to the smack surging through our veins" Umm, that's not marijuana.

Clearly you need to learn more before you post an opinion in a thread about marijuana legalization. Otherwise, you just sound dumb and your points aren't about this topic at all.

The only reason why pot is illegal is ignorance.

Everyone I know who smokes pot is a productive member of society that I trust indefinitely. The same cannot be said for my friends who drink, or even those who are workaholics. The drinkers are very irresponsible, but aren't looked down upon because alcohol is legal. The workaholics are admired because of their dedication to work, but it comes at the expense of their friends, family, and personal development. Time and time again I have given examples of all the productive people I know who smoke pot, yet you anti-pot people (who really have nothing but wildly inaccurate opinions and hypocrisy on their side) ignore them and focus on people who'd be unproductive regardless of their pot smoking.
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:40 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 704,757 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
I spend my time with my friends, reading scripture, and writing fiction.
All that needs to be said by this person was said right there. They are a religious person who thinks that everyone should follow their religion. They think that because they read the bible over and over again that religion is not their "crutch" like weed is for others.

And for the record, many pro-legalization people, including Ron Paul, are not smokers but are Libertarians who understand that prohibition of anything (including Heroin, something I think nobody should ever do, but still think should be legalized and taxed instead of put into the hands of Al-Qaeda and the Taliban) leads to many more problems in the long run. Why do you ignore the history of prohibition in this country? Do you actually think Pot, Heroin, Cocaine and LSD are any different than alcohol?

Or do you give Wine a pass because Jesus drank it?
You forget, Hashish and Marijuana come from the same place as our culture and have been around for millenia.
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:51 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 704,757 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
I could rattle off dozens of names of people I know who wasted years on drugs. I cannot think of anybody who used to do drugs, who now says, "drugs were wonderful I wish I was still using them!" nor can I think of anybody who says, "drugs made me the great man I am today!"
Here's a list of many famous people who used drugs at some point in their lives, including the lead singer of UB40 who credits marijuana for ending his alcohol addiction. In this list, Bill Gates, Sigmund Freud, Salvidor Dali, President Grant, Ernest Hemmingway, Aldous Huxley, Thomas Jefferson, and many others all have been linked to drug usage, some of them, like Huxley, credit much of their success to the use of psychoactive drugs.

Plus, many of those against prohibition are not ones you would assume to be drug users, like you would with some musicians or the people posting on CD.
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:11 PM
 
424 posts, read 975,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMegan View Post
To me, pot is just something to hide your feelings. You smoke it and forget about all of your worries for a short time. They say it is not addicting but it is, my dad probably couldnt live a day without it and same goes for my sister. It is such a high school drug and thing to do. Grow up a little! Why should you need to smoke or take some substance just to have a good time or to relax?

Such a BS typical answer, don't fly guy, yea everything I do is to hide my feelings LOL!
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Pensacola, Fl
656 posts, read 580,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
I spend my time with my friends, reading scripture, and writing fiction.

I don't waste my life in front of the TV (some years have gone by where I've watched less than 90 minutes of TV per week and I really don't feel any worse for it).

I don't waste my life on booze either, as I'm not some boozed up drunk.

I don't stuff my face with food, I'm in very fine shape.
And you've totally missed my point. You said that smoking weed to relieve stress is a crutch for weak people and blah, blah, blah. And I said the same can be said of any stress reliever. I could very well say reading the bible is a crutch for weak minded people because they need a book of fairy tales to tell them that it's going to be okay (not that I believe that).

Pick an activity, any activity and you can say it's a crutch for the weak. The argument doesn't hold up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
If they thought about DNA while buzzed up on LSD, imagine what they could do if they weren't buzzing on drugs, eh? Do you honestly believe that drugs enhance life and make people more capable of achieving their goals?
Do you know anything of the history of the DNA model? Seriously, you can be honest. Because if you did, you'd know that they couldn't think of the model while sober. It is when they got high that the all the dots connected.

For future reference, drugs cannot do anything positive or negative; it's what the user does with it. Weed cannot make someone lazy, and weed cannot enhance or degrade the quality of one's life. It's the USER that decides for themselves. If they have an epiphany about life and decide to change or stay the same, then that is their choice. It's not the weed, it's the state of mind that can enhance and degrade the quality of someone's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
As for stress, deal with it as it comes and you won't find yourself in a situation where it has bottled up. Take things as they come and deal with them for what they are, don't push them aside and let a few small problems pile up into a mountain.
Um, what do you think hobbies and activities are? They're stress relievers if you didn't know. The way to deal with stress is to meet it head on and nip it in the bud. Some do that by reading scriptures, writing fiction, hanging with friends, or smoking weed. It's not in your place to decide how people should deal with stress when a.) you don't know them b.) you're not in their head and c.) what might work for you doesn't work for everybody.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
I don't need crutches to get through life, do what you think will have the best real results long-term, not what looks pretty or attractive at the moment but might have a mountain of long-term consequences.
And I don't need a bible thumping 'live this way or to hell you go' person to tell me what to do and how I should live my life. I have reached the operational stage of development and can make choices for myself on what I think the best results for both long and short-term would be. Thanks (not really) but no thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
If being happy was as simple as injecting yourself with chemical substances then we'd find that the happiest people in the world are those who continuously use heroin and other such substances. Happiness doesn't come in a liquid, a powder, or a pill, either you're happy or you're not, it's not about what you will yourself to be. A lot of people cannot find the good, they don't know how to recognize it, let alone pursue it and obtain it on a continuous basis. I suggest you read Plato, you'll see what I mean.
Yea, you don't know what you're talking about.

First, happiness is a state of being; you can't and will not be happy every damn minute of your life. "Being happy" is a fallacy because their is never in the moment of life where people are completely totally doesnt-want-another-thing happy; again it's a state of being. When you can understand that, you'll understand that your whole argument is complete bullsh*t.

Another thing: you don't know what the hell happiness comes in. Who are you to tell me or any other person what happiness is for me when only I know what can make me happy? Who are you to tell me what happiness does and does not come in? Just because you find 'happiness' one way, doesn't mean it works like that for everyone else.

I suggest you go outside your front door once and a while and see what I mean. Your naivety and borderline stupidity about people and drugs astounds me.
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Old 02-10-2009, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Ohio
1,008 posts, read 114,593 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
All that needs to be said by this person was said right there. They are a religious person who thinks that everyone should follow their religion. They think that because they read the bible over and over again that religion is not their "crutch" like weed is for others.

I don't think you should follow my religion. I could care less if you want to smoke your life away with drugs. I'm not opposed to the legalization of drugs, but once you blow your mind on them you shouldn't receive any help from the government, nor should you receive food-stamps or subsidized housing if you cannot hold down a job. If you want to waste your life on drugs, it's your life to waste.

With everybody presumably having access to relevant information about drugs, their known effects, possible effects, long-term consequences, etc, if somebody decides to start using drugs, they've made their choice and they will have to deal with it. The problem is that it rarely stays that way. In the end, society winds up dealing with it, their family deals with it, their friends deal with it, random citizens deal with it when they wind up suffering as a result of the poor choices made by others.

I decide to stay sober, get in my car and drive sober, but I have no say in the matter of a guy ten miles down the road who decided to leave a party buzzing from cocaine and alcohol, who gets in his car and winds up coming left of center, crashing into me.

You don't have the right to burden others with the consequences of your poor choices. If somebody wants to use drugs, fine, but if somebody dies as a result of it, then the drug user is stoned (no pun intended) to death or hanged, it's that simple. The same goes for alcohol or anything else that impairs coordination/judgement.

I don't believe I said that everybody should follow my religion. Please show me where I said that...
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Old 02-10-2009, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Ohio
1,008 posts, read 114,593 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post



First, happiness is a state of being; you can't and will not be happy every damn minute of your life. "Being happy" is a fallacy because their is never in the moment of life where people are completely totally doesnt-want-another-thing happy; again it's a state of being. When you can understand that, you'll understand that your whole argument is complete bullsh*t.

Another thing: you don't know what the hell happiness comes in. Who are you to tell me or any other person what happiness is for me when only I know what can make me happy? Who are you to tell me what happiness does and does not come in? Just because you find 'happiness' one way, doesn't mean it works like that for everyone else.

I suggest you go outside your front door once and a while and see what I mean. Your naivety and borderline stupidity about people and drugs astounds me.

Happiness is not a state of being, happiness is an intangible state of reality, either you are happy or you are not. The happy man is one who can pursue the form of the good, who consistently makes choices that genuinely result in the best long-term gains for himself.

Most people have no idea how to pursue their own best interests, which is why so many people seem to suffer on a regular basis, they crash and burn because they lack the ability to accurately project consequences of their decisions.

Happiness is not a simple matter of feeling content or feeling pleasure, if that was the case, the heroin/cocaine/meth users would be the happiest in the world. It's an intangible concept/form that is incapable of being perceived and is not inherent in any object.

Again, read Plato...
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