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Old 02-12-2009, 12:19 AM
 
3,651 posts, read 8,119,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacknblue View Post
Or maybe pot meet bong? I forget.
lol

something along those lines.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Ohio
1,008 posts, read 641,408 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill545 View Post

Fair enough. I'm actually less libertarian than that myself, but to each their own.

If things fall to heck with people driving under the influence of heroin, marijuana, etc, then we can always crack down and really tighten things up. But until somebody abuses their rights, they shouldn't lose their rights.

If somebody gets whacked out on meth, to the point where they think that I am the leader of a gang looking to steal their stash, and they open fire on me, their right to use meth (along with their right to keep living) should be in serious jeopardy.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:37 AM
 
Location: NJ
15,936 posts, read 10,982,938 times
Reputation: 10137
Default legalizing the absence of reason

If pot, etc. were free, I could not argue that it supports gangs/ terrorists.

Alchohol and pot are both mind altering substances that promote unintentional and often harmful behavior.

Alchohol can be used in moderation but there are enough stats to show it is often abused to the detriment of innocent members of society. I don't think we need another 'tiger by the tail' by legalizing pot.

There is enough precedent in society that limits even responsible use of many things for the sake of statistical safety. Pot use and its culturally grandfathered alchohol flies in the face of the concept of 'responsibility'.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:44 AM
 
681 posts, read 2,502,043 times
Reputation: 526
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
Yeah, but MILLIONS have been killed by secondhand cigarette smoke.
Hence why I said tobacco products should be illegal. Their users don't have the decency to keep their filthy smoke far away from the noses of any nonsmoker who might smell it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
This is a post that shows how ignorant a person can be.
Thank you for describing your words so accurately before I had a chance to. You're quick on the draw, my friend. Let's examine more of the ignorance below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
"I've seen stoned people before and it's a scary sight." Really?
Really. I wouldn't have said it if I didn't mean it. So I'll say it once more for the record... I've seen stoned people before and it's a scary sight. Wanna hear it again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
It's scary to see a group of strangers sitting at a dealer's house watching Family Guy and enjoying each other's company?
I've never been party to such a scene and I never will be. There's a thing called intelligence. I'm blessed enough to have some.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
It's scary to see someone eating a bag of doritos and still being hungry?
I could eat a bag of Doritos and still be hungry. However, two nights ago I was on the treadmill for over an hour and burned in excess of 1,000 calories. My metabolism is three times that of the average adult. The types and quantities of food that I have ingested in my short life would drive a cardiologist to the insane asylum... and yet, last time I had a physical with blood work, all of my numbers were well within normal ranges. Here's one that will make your blood boil... last Saturday night I ate 10 burgers from Burger King all in one sitting. Did I happen to mention that I weigh 216 pounds and I'm 6'2"? No obesity here.

So-called "bad food" is only bad if you eat too much of it and you do not maintain a level of activity that can burn off all of the calories. Even Weight Watchers doesn't tell you any foods you are absolutely not allowed to eat... it merely assigns a "point value" to all foods and you have to make sure you don't eat too many "points".

By the way, let's talk about ignorant. It's ignorant to equate pot smoking with food ingestion. You need food to live. You do not need marijuana smoke to live. I know this because I've lived almost 30 years in excellent health without ever having inhaled any marijuana smoke (to the best of my knowledge).

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
It's scary to see a person enjoying the sound of music?
Only if that person is Barack Obama trying to sing "THE HILLS ARE ALIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE, WITH THE SOUND OF MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSIC" operatically. Beyond that, music is a wonderful thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
Potheads may be a lot of things, but scary isn't one of them.
So says the absolute unquestionable authority. My opinion can't possibly hold up to that, can it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
The "fear of stoned people" was the same exact propaganda they used to make pot illegal in the first place.
Check out a person enjoying the sound of music as I turn on the "Hallelujah Chorus".

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
But then again, this person is a puritan who thinks that the government should force us all to live the same boring life they live.
As for you, my friend, if you are going to call me names, at least know that the word "Puritan" needs to be capitalized. As far as you thinking that I am Puritanical, let's face it... look back at the lives the Puritans lived... surely they had their struggles but I'd bet that "deviant behavior" was among the least of them. They lived "good lives" and did what they "should do". If that's boring, count me in. I'd rather have that than an "exciting" but deviant and self-destructive life.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:48 AM
 
681 posts, read 2,502,043 times
Reputation: 526
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
If things fall to heck with people driving under the influence of heroin, marijuana, etc, then we can always crack down and really tighten things up. But until somebody abuses their rights, they shouldn't lose their rights.

If somebody gets whacked out on meth, to the point where they think that I am the leader of a gang looking to steal their stash, and they open fire on me, their right to use meth (along with their right to keep living) should be in serious jeopardy.
So basically you're advocating allowing society to degenerate until it becomes a problem for you or someone else. What defines "things falling to heck with people driving under the influence of heroin, marijuana, etc."? Frequent fatal accidents involving those drugs? It's time for a fact check- there are no people on this earth who aren't loved by someone, and if they die tragically in a car accident, people and families can be devastated. Better to keep these drugs on the "illegal list" than to legalize them and only clamp down when the relevant fatality rate increases.

Just to show you how much you need to learn... if someone gets whacked out on meth to the point that they open fire on you, their right to use meth SHOULD be in jeopardy but you have just given your life to prove that. Now... for as much as this world doesn't need any more people advocating the legalization of hallucinogenic chemicals, I'm sure that you don't want to be blown away by a meth-head. Aren't you better off this way?
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Old 02-12-2009, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
2,544 posts, read 3,454,982 times
Reputation: 1931
I posted this way back near the beginning of this thread, and I have yet to see anyone even attempt to address it.

Under what Constitutional authority does the federal government make marijuana illegal?
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Old 02-12-2009, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Ohio
1,008 posts, read 641,408 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post

Just to show you how much you need to learn... if someone gets whacked out on meth to the point that they open fire on you, their right to use meth SHOULD be in jeopardy but you have just given your life to prove that. Now... for as much as this world doesn't need any more people advocating the legalization of hallucinogenic chemicals, I'm sure that you don't want to be blown away by a meth-head. Aren't you better off this way?

If somebody shoots at me I'm going to shoot back, and chances are that I, being sober and of sound mind, will be a better shot than they who are under the influence of a crazy mind-bending drug.

What sort of a nanny state do you want? Do you want to protect people from cigarettes, alcohol, fatty foods, soda pop, sharp corners, pointed sticks?
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Ohio
1,008 posts, read 641,408 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post
So basically you're advocating allowing society to degenerate until it becomes a problem for you or someone else. What defines "things falling to heck with people driving under the influence of heroin, marijuana, etc."? Frequent fatal accidents involving those drugs? It's time for a fact check- there are no people on this earth who aren't loved by someone, and if they die tragically in a car accident, people and families can be devastated. Better to keep these drugs on the "illegal list" than to legalize them and only clamp down when the relevant fatality rate increases.


If somebody is determined to use meth or heroin, all the laws in the world won't stop them, will they? They'll simply put their life at risk by buying from some shady dealer, while providing revenue to some drug cartel somewhere down the line.

Does availability lead to use? If heroin was legal and somebody in a grocery store offered to point you to the area of the store where heroin was kept, would you buy any? If you're not inclined to use heroin, you won't use it, right?
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Ohio
1,008 posts, read 641,408 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanman13 View Post
I posted this way back near the beginning of this thread, and I have yet to see anyone even attempt to address it.

Under what Constitutional authority does the federal government make marijuana illegal?


Depending on how you want to interpret it. If you consider drugs part of inter-state commerce.


Article 1, Section 8-

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
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Old 02-12-2009, 10:55 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,847,661 times
Reputation: 1298
[quote=NWPAguy;7433046]
Quote:
Hence why I said tobacco products should be illegal. Their users don't have the decency to keep their filthy smoke far away from the noses of any nonsmoker who might smell it.

Thank you for describing your words so accurately before I had a chance to. You're quick on the draw, my friend. Let's examine more of the ignorance below...

Really. I wouldn't have said it if I didn't mean it. So I'll say it once more for the record... I've seen stoned people before and it's a scary sight. Wanna hear it again?
Why not just make it illegal to use in public places? Why force everyone to live the same joyless life you have just because you don't like their vices?
I guarantee you that the "stoned people" you've seen were either complete burnouts who were living on the streets, or were on something other than pot. You'd be surprised how many people are actually on weed in regular situations.

Quote:
I've never been party to such a scene and I never will be. There's a thing called intelligence. I'm blessed enough to have some.
There's a thing called "ignorance" and you are definitely cursed to have a lot of it. One can have intelligence and still enjoy laughing and having a good time. Would you say that a room with a Yale graduate, a woman with a master's degree, a man with advanced professional certifications in addition to his top-notch education and someone who passed the California Bar Exam with a score in the top 5% is full of unintelligent people? Well, that scene I described with people sitting in a room, watching TV and smoking weed would have included those four. I'm sorry, but I guarantee you that you're not as intelligent as any of them.

Quote:
I could eat a bag of Doritos and still be hungry. However, two nights ago I was on the treadmill for over an hour and burned in excess of 1,000 calories. My metabolism is three times that of the average adult. The types and quantities of food that I have ingested in my short life would drive a cardiologist to the insane asylum... and yet, last time I had a physical with blood work, all of my numbers were well within normal ranges. Here's one that will make your blood boil... last Saturday night I ate 10 burgers from Burger King all in one sitting. Did I happen to mention that I weigh 216 pounds and I'm 6'2"? No obesity here.
Yes, but your BMI (body mass index) is 27.7, which makes you overweight. I am 6' and 164...my BMI is 22.2, which makes me right in the middle of the "normal" range, so I am clearly healthier than you are. I coach and play basketball and baseball, can do 1000 crunches and 400 pushups in one sitting and never go a day without doing some kind of activity. I've been sick only 4 times in my life, and I eat huge amounts of candy all throughout the day. I'm not sure why you went on that rant about how great your (overweight) body is...were you trying to impress me?

Quote:
So-called "bad food" is only bad if you eat too much of it and you do not maintain a level of activity that can burn off all of the calories. Even Weight Watchers doesn't tell you any foods you are absolutely not allowed to eat... it merely assigns a "point value" to all foods and you have to make sure you don't eat too many "points".
How is that any different than alcohol, tobacco, marijuana or even cocaine? My friend does cocaine every once in a while when he goes out. I would personally NEVER put that junk into my body, but he does. It makes him more confident and gives him more energy for the night, and he crashes to bed for about 10 hours after he comes down. He doesn't get into fights, doesn't ever need more and will go months without doing any. His cocaine use, while dangerous because of the inherent danger or the drug, does not hurt anyone and does not really endanger his life any more than eating a bucket of KFC. Marijuana is far safer than KFC, as no amount of Marijuana can kill you, but if you shovel enough KFC down, you will die.

Quote:
By the way, let's talk about ignorant. It's ignorant to equate pot smoking with food ingestion. You need food to live. You do not need marijuana smoke to live. I know this because I've lived almost 30 years in excellent health without ever having inhaled any marijuana smoke (to the best of my knowledge).
Marijuana is widely accepted (in states and countries with medicinal laws) as medication for cancer patients who have trouble eating. A friend of mine had a brain tumor that caused him to drop to 95 pounds on his 6'2" frame. He was given a few months to live. A doctor said the only route they had left was to give him marijuana to combat the nausea and lack of appetite and hope that it could help him recover. 6 months later he was up to 165 pounds and he's survived another 4 years since then with the tumor. He would have died if not for the appetite stimulation and nausea suppression of marijuana.

And even the DEA says on their propaganda-filled description of the effects of Marijuana that it causes hunger and thirst.

Quote:
Only if that person is Barack Obama trying to sing "THE HILLS ARE ALIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE, WITH THE SOUND OF MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSIC" operatically. Beyond that, music is a wonderful thing.
Why are you bringing up Obama? He's contrary to me in this debate...I disagree with him 100% on this issue and voted for Bob Barr because of Obama's anti-Libertarian stances.

And who enjoys music more than stoners? Look at the "Jam band" circuit and you'll see how many stoners appreciate music. Look at "Bonnaroo", and you'll see a multi-million dollar music festival attended almost exclusively by stoners.

Quote:
As for you, my friend, if you are going to call me names, at least know that the word "Puritan" needs to be capitalized. As far as you thinking that I am Puritanical, let's face it... look back at the lives the Puritans lived... surely they had their struggles but I'd bet that "deviant behavior" was among the least of them. They lived "good lives" and did what they "should do". If that's boring, count me in. I'd rather have that than an
Calling you a "Puritan" is not calling you a name, it's a description of your views. Really? The Puritans were the same psychos who murdered innocent women for being "witches". They clearly did not enjoy their lives too much, did not create much in the way of art, music, culture or philosophy. All they did was live a sad existence and they forced anyone who didn't agree with them to live the same way. And if they didn't have problems with "deviant behavior" why did they have to live by such strict rules? Why would women be stoned to death for adultery?

I live how a person should. I work an honest living, keep myself physically and mentally fit, enjoy the time I have because there is no afterlife and we only have 80-100 years to live life, volunteer to help at-risk youth in my spare time and I donate to various charities (in however small amounts) every single week. I never force my way of life on anyone. If we legalized pot, I wouldn't break down your door and force a joint to your lips...but you would certainly allow for someone to break down my door to take away my joint.
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