U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 02-20-2009, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
857 posts, read 1,230,631 times
Reputation: 558

Advertisements

ITs a very simple formula. Those in charge control our lives, they want us to live our lives without ever questioning it or thinking critically. alcohol makes u dumber and tobacco doesnt do much but look cool, work well with alcohol, and leads to cancer. but these DONT in anyway change peoples perspective on life or think critically. Now lets look at some of the drugs that are "dangerous" like marijuana. at its worst it makes people lazy and satisfied with generally stupid things (cartoons for example) i see no harm in this. @ its best marijuana makes u think a lot more and start looking at things from a different perspective, this is only dangerous to a gov that doesnt want its populace questioning its authority, thus alcohol tobacco = while marijuana/other drugs =
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-20-2009, 11:19 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,849,578 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post
A fine athletic resume, my friend. You must not have been doing much smoking back in those days. Any athlete with half a brain knows that smoking ANYTHING is a huge no-no when it comes to maintaining stamina and prowess. Now look what has happened...
Well, I shut out the Cuban National Team for 5 innings in an exhibition game in Cienfuegos two years ago before I came out of the game for a relief pitcher who promptly gave up 6 runs. Not many American pitchers (especially ones who lost 15 MPH off their fastball after blowing out their shoulder) can say that.


Quote:
When you dig through the facts, you discover that I placed 3rd out of 4 people... which for a chronic non-athlete such as myself, wasn't half bad. Your "Golden State Math Award" could be comparatively meaningless.
Every public high school student in California had to take the test, California's a big state...
Quote:
Again, with the changing my words to fit your purposes. You will be judged on judgment day based upon the way you live your life. That judgment is not up for me to pass down. I hope you change your life to the point where you are judged deserving... but nobody who insults the Bible by calling it "a book of fairy tales" will be judged deserving. (I didn't make that up. It's in "my book of fairy tales". I would rather live a good life for 100 years or so and find out that your belief about the afterlife or lack thereof is right... than to live an ignorant, pot-smoking, anti-religious-venom-spewing life for 70 years or so and learn- when it's too late- that my belief about God, heaven and hell is right.)
Again, you are telling me I live a bad life because I don't follow your ancient superstitions. I live a good life, I serve my community (5-6 days I week I do community service), I always help people in need and I even have gone back to the supermarket to have them charge me for stuff when I realized they had forgotten. Accepting Jesus has nothing to do with living a good life. The most laughable thing about you is that you're all "you have to accept my book of fairy tales to go to heaven...it's true because I read it in that book." So Mordor is also real? I think Hobbits exist because they said so in "The Lord of the Rings". Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?


Quote:
Which will happen sooner than you think if you keep smoking pot. There's a reason why chemicals contained in pot smoke are called "carcinogenic".
The key word is "smoke". If legalized, I could buy pot candy and kill two birds with one stone (I like candy a lot). They also have "Vaporization" machines that vaporize pot without creating the carcinogenic smoke and I use one of those, which causes no ill effects on my lungs. It's the method of use suggested by doctors.

Quote:
I have never even come close to causing an accident while I was driving on the interstate talking on my cell phone to help me stay awake. I can guarantee you that I was much safer than a stoned driver would've been.
But you said you had to be on the phone to stay awake while driving. If "stoners" are dangerous on the road because you just assume they are, you would be too. And the worst drivers I know are not those who talk on cell phones or who smoke weed, they are just BAD drivers. Like my mother or my girlfriends' father, both are incredibly scary to drive with and both don't use cellphones, drink or smoke marijuana.

Quote:
Do some research. You're consuming a chemical which is not only recognized by your body as poison, but is metabolized into many things including formaldehyde. Would you drink formaldehyde? Hello, nasty stuff you smelled in 7th grade when they gave you the frog dissection lab?
Since when is moderation going to kill me? At communion you are supposed to drink wine. I'd drink more wine (alcohol in general) if I took communion like a Catholic than I do now.

Quote:
When used as prescribed, I doubt it leads to heroin addiction. That's about as sensible as saying that going to a shooting range to do target practice leads to fatal car accidents. You're comparing apples to oranges. If someone does not obtain heroin (illegally of course), that person cannot become, nor be, addicted to heroin.
But if you call Marijuana a "gateway drug" those Rx drugs are actually worse. They cause the same addictions, and Heroin is far cheaper than Oxy. Why buy your fix for $100 when you could get it for $20? Many people who check into Rehab are there for legal Rx drugs.


Quote:
They're called "potheads" for a reason. You never hear of anyone being called a "cigarhead" or an "acetaminophenhead" or even a "Prozachead"... but there is "pothead", "crackhead", "boozehead", etc. If money associated with the black market, for purchase of pot, causes murders and robberies... PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BUY POT. But yet they do... because they're ignorant. America is getting collectively more ignorant as time goes on, wouldn't you agree?
Actually, I've heard Prozachead used for someone I knew who would be a total jerk when not on Prozac. I hear all kinds of derogatory names for cigarette users, fatties, Rx Drug addicts and the rest. There's also derogatory names for blacks and asians too, but we don't make them illegal. And the ignorance is very much perpetuated by bible thumpers like you who push for religion and not science in schools.

Quote:
Ask your friendly neighborhood police officers what they think about legalization of pot. Tell me how many favor it and how many believe that it will cause more headaches for them.
My sister worked as the top civilian executive at the Police Department in a city of about 90,000 people. Most of her officers didn't want to worry about pot because Gangs were a much bigger problem. Police officers in Santa Cruz, Oakland, Denver and San Francisco (among others) have placed Marijuana at the bottom of their pecking order for crimes. There's an organization called "Law Enforcement Against Prohibition" that has brave officers putting their careers on the line to speak out against the moronic prohibition of pot.

Quote:
I'm 29 years old. I was born in 1980. Not even my parents were around at that time. So no, I don't remember the last time blah blah blah.
I was born in 1981, but I read things called "history books" that taught me all the problems associated with prohibition. Alcohol Prohibition was one of the most massive failures in American policy history, how is Marijuana any different except that it's safer and less addictive, and the growth of it is cheaper and its plant has many useful by-products.

Quote:
And we don't have lawlessness and organized crime now... yay. *groan*
Duh, the organized crime is FROM PROHIBITION. "Drug gangs" wouldn't exist if there were no illegal drugs. Al Capone made his fortune on illegal alcohol, gambling and prostitution. Budweiser made St Louis and John McCain's wife rich because it was legal.

Quote:
That has been the case since the beginning of time, practically. So what we need to do is throttle up punishments for breakages of these laws... and make sure that our police officers spend their time trying to bust these crooks instead of sitting in their cars at speed traps.
What happened to "eye for an eye"? If I smoke pot, the punishment should be the cop smoking pot...otherwise you're not advocating what jesus would advocate.


Quote:
Kids grow up with no sense of responsibility because their parents don't instill it into them... and I believe that one of the biggest culprits is the United States government. If you don't want to work, you can go on welfare. If you want to have lots of illegitimate children that you can't afford to raise, the taxpayers will pay you to raise them. If you've never sought job training by yourself, the government will provide it for you, free of charge. If you cannot afford higher education, the government will hand it to you.
This has absolutely nothing to do with pot. In fact, we're asking for pot to be legalized to make it so we can help support these government programs with the taxes. We're asking to legalize it so LEGITIMATE businesses and jobs will emerge from illegal ones. I work with kids too, and I notice the same problems, but it's the parents' fault. It's their reliance on TV for their kids' to be babysat. Five minutes into my first practice of the year, I can guess a kids home life almost perfectly. But again, this has NOTHING TO DO WITH MARIJUANA.

Quote:
With all of this in mind... and especially with how well America has proven its sense of responsibility with alcohol (oh, NOBODY ever gets drunk in public nor causes car accidents, public disturbances, or conception of illegitimate children which will have to be paid for by welfare, while drunk.... NOBODY) and cigarettes (nobody has ever smoked around me when I haven't wanted to smell it... I have NEVER come home stinking like a cigarette)..... what makes you think that Americans could be more responsible with marijuana?
What makes you think prohibition and all the organized crime associated with it, not to mention the evaporation of wealth into the black market, is any better? I'd rather have potheads than drug dealers, wouldn't you? I'd rather have that $5,000,000,000 spent on unsolved kidnappings and murders instead of marijuana. I'd rather see that $20,000,000,000 in revenue taxed and used for social programs than to see us fall further into debt while the Juarez Cartel gets rich and murders dozens...it's really a no-brainer...

Last edited by Pug Life; 02-20-2009 at 11:28 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2009, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Pensacola, Fl
656 posts, read 953,026 times
Reputation: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post
I could see a law against driving while extremely tired but driving while extremely upset? Puh-leeze. How could a cop ever prove a state of being "extremely upset" in a court of law, if the driver didn't give obvious evidence such as screaming obscenities at the cop from the moment he approached the driver's window?
Would you like a copy of Florida's handbook? It says that it's a ticketable offense. There are plenty of signs to tell if someone is extremely upset (extremely being the key word here).

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post
Apparently I don't. Congratulations on being more enlightened than I am. *rolls eyes*
You know there is a smiley for your eyes. Use it sometime.




Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post
Wanna bet??!! People will steal to get the money to buy candy, or just steal the freaking candy, for goodness sakes! What makes you think they won't steal to be able to afford their precious marijuana?
Okay, okay I gotcha. So, how many Americans are going to kill a person (which crack heads, meth heads, heroin addicts do), are going to commit robbery (remember robbery and stealing are different!), and will do any and all sexual favors for five dollars worth of marijuana? Hell, I could ask around my neighborhood and round up five dollars for christ sake!

And, I think you are talking about children (who wouldn't be able to get pot legally anyway, if it were legalized) that steal money for candy or just steal candy; many dim witted people can find fifty cents on the ground to buy some candy and many can find five bucks to do the same with marijuana.

Major robberies of stores for some marijuana?



Get real; they would've started with cigarettes and alcohol first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post
A SUBSTANCE won't damage society. Its ABUSERS will damage society.
Which is my main point. Many people equate drugs with making (as in forcing unwilling people) to make stupid decisions. I've been arguing this the entire time that substances don't make people do stupid things; it's people that DECIDE to do stupid things. An abuser (btw, not all people who smoke are considered 'abusers'; true abusers of drugs don't even make up one percent of the population) decides for themselves to steal from someone for a high because they feel they will die without it; an abuser decides for themselves what they are going to do, it is a CHOICE they made not a circumstance forced upon them because of a substance made them do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post
Families have been ripped apart and countless thousands (or millions) of lives lost on account of alcohol abuse... but it isn't the alcohol itself that causes all of those tragedies. It is the people who consume too much alcohol and then go off and do stupid things which cause the tragedies.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post
If Americans could always self-govern and self-regulate, I would have no problem at all with all of the drugs presently illegal in America becoming legal. Let the people abuse them in private as long as they harm nobody... their day will come and they will be individually judged... so it doesn't matter a whole lot to me above and beyond the fact that I don't like knowing that there are "lost people" out there. If I never have to encounter anyone who is intoxicated in any way, and if my life is never adversely impacted by someone who is using a chemical I choose not to use, I couldn't care less if the chemicals were legalized.
So your all for a nanny or police state? Cuz, that's basically what your saying. We are too stupid to know what to do with ourselves, so we need big brother to spoon feed us how to live. Most Americans don't have the responsibility (which is a very loose term btw, what you think the meaning of responsible is, is shaped by your upbringing, moral, and religious leanings) to do what's right, so we can't entrust them with that freedom.

Btw, know that some don't believe in the bible such as you do and that the term 'lost people' (meaning people that will burn in hell right? Just say what you mean, don't beat around the bush) doesn't mean the same for us all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post
In the end, keeping these drugs illegal is partially to protect us from ourselves.
And how are we being protected? Answer me that? More people die BECAUSE of the illegal drug trade (quite a few that are innocent to begin with) than people that die FROM drug abuse. How in the hell does that make any bit of sense? How are we being protected when drug cartels shoot up neighborhoods over TERRITORY; over land? How are we being protected when there are certain parts of towns in cities that police do not go into because they will be shot upon sight? How are we being protected when a child dies in the cross fire between two enemy gangs? What type of protection are we receiving? How are we being protected from ourselves when the drugs are readily available and coming in streams? What kind of protection does prohibtion offer?

I'll tell you: none whatsoever. The only reason pot and many other drugs remain illegal is for the sole purpose of making money. Because the government has to create departments and agencies to 'combat the war on drugs' someone is getting a fat wad of cash. Because we have to send out our policemen to arrest potheads (when their time could be spent elsewhere solving real crimes) a department gets more funding from the government.

It's not about ethics or morals or doing what's right. It's about making money and they don't give a damn about you, the don't give a damn about me, and they surely don't give a damn about your kids. All they care about is their money and they will do whatever it takes to keep that money coming. Don't fool or delude yourself into thinking that we have a prohibtion to protect us from ourselves or to keep the fabric of society together.

Realize that you are constantly being duped, deceived, and lied to. The difference between a fool and a intellect is that the intellect knows that he's being lied to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post
As a conservative, I'm not sure I like that notion but its benefits outweigh its detriments.
You're not a conservative: you are either a neocon or a socially conservative person. The term itself leans toward a more libertarian stance. It's been wrung through the mud so much throughout the years that people don't even know what it means anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post
Americans have chosen to be ignorant and stupid, and since nobody wants to be a victim of an ignorant and/or stupid person's irresponsible actions, the drugs remain illegal.
As I've said before, that is not the reason why drugs remain illegal; it's all about making bank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post
How much would you sacrifice to make pot legal?
Not much since we have more problems with it being illegal rather than legal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post
Stoned drivers can kill people.
So can talking on a phone, fiddling with the radio, looking for something in the car, or being sleepy while driving. Point? And the assumption that people will start to drive while high because it's legal is ludicrous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post
If pot were legalized and the annual vehicular accident fatalities attributable to pot usage increased by 50% the next year, would you care?
Now how about if your child, or your spouse, or your mother, were one of those extra victims? NOW would you care?[/quote]

Why wouldn't I care?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post
If the stats wouldn't bother you but a hit close to home would, then you're being selfish by saying that pot should be legalized. Everyone killed in a marijuana-related car accident is someone's child/parent/spouse/friend/whatever.
And everyone killed in a war is the son/daughter, spouse, mother/father of someone out there. I'm all for doing away with needless war and bloodshed.

And also, I'd be more concerned about having a family member that just died, not about the other idiot that decided to drive under the influence. I'd want that person prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for the crime (it is vehicular manslaughter and a DWI). But because I have a brain, I'd be able to realize that it's because of that person's stupidity that made them get behind the wheel of a car while high. I'd probably call for more strict laws on those who violate the law and the death of someone results from it; but I'd also realize that I can never get my family member back no matter how much I wanted to take away the rights of others. I'd realize that pot wasn't the reason my family member died, it was the stupidity of another to drive while high on it. Making it illegal wouldn't have kept the person from driving while high and it wouldn't have kept my family member alive. That is the point you're missing. I could lose a loved one right now, what could I say about marijuana then? More reason to keep it illegal? Why, I still would lose. I wouldn't care less about losing someone important to me (or someone dying because of a DWI driver) if it was illegal or legal and it'd be an equal chance of it happening. Making it illegal does nothing but push the market underground and give the profits to king pins, drug cartels and the like that murder and cause crime.

If you don't like my answer; it's totally fine with me. It's my opinion on the matter and you can take it for what it's worth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2009, 02:40 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,084,608 times
Reputation: 822
I actually am stoned right now...but my question is, are really seriously still on this topic? Really?! Can we agree that after 58 pages nobody will convince the other side? This stoner believes its time to kill this thread.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2009, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Southwestern Ohio
4,112 posts, read 5,732,003 times
Reputation: 1620
I would agree.. this has turned into some religious war and no one can win with the other(feels kind of hateful in here).. to troll like.. I'm peacing out!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2009, 06:06 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,534,815 times
Reputation: 1573
Well, it is a fact that if any other animal species gets high from (natural) drugs and allows itself to become a hardcore addict evolution will make certain that they will become extinct.
The fact that there are people willing to get high on chemical substances designed to be extremely addictive is a testament to man's stupidity on the account of having lost the natural instinct to survive as an individual (let alone as a species).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2009, 12:40 PM
 
681 posts, read 2,504,166 times
Reputation: 526
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
Well, I shut out the Cuban National Team for 5 innings in an exhibition game in Cienfuegos two years ago before I came out of the game for a relief pitcher who promptly gave up 6 runs. Not many American pitchers (especially ones who lost 15 MPH off their fastball after blowing out their shoulder) can say that.
Not many American pitchers would even risk traveling to Cuba, so I would say you're probably correct. What does any of this have to do with whether or not pot should be legalized? I am really not interested in how amazing you think your body or your athletic prowess is. It's obvious that your intellectual prowess has not kept pace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
Again, you are telling me I live a bad life because I don't follow your ancient superstitions. I live a good life,
Please answer this question instead of dodging it like so many inhabitants of the new Obamanation. By whose standards do you live a good life? Furthermore, how can that be proven?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
I serve my community (5-6 days I week I do community service)
Would you do it wearing a shirt that says "I use marijuana"? I would gladly do community service wearing a shirt that states MY truth... "I am a Bible-believing Christian who does not use marijuana". If you wouldn't wear such a shirt when you do your community service, apparently your marijuana usage embarrasses you to an extent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
The most laughable thing about you is that you're all "you have to accept my book of fairy tales to go to heaven...it's true because I read it in that book." So Mordor is also real? I think Hobbits exist because they said so in "The Lord of the Rings". Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?
So what do YOU believe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
The key word is "smoke". If legalized, I could buy pot candy and kill two birds with one stone (I like candy a lot). They also have "Vaporization" machines that vaporize pot without creating the carcinogenic smoke and I use one of those, which causes no ill effects on my lungs. It's the method of use suggested by doctors.
Since you think Harvard is such a bastion of intellectual fortitude, I invite you to read this article on the dangers of marijuana usage in all forms:

THE MEDICAL DANGERS OF MARIJUANA USE

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
But you said you had to be on the phone to stay awake while driving. If "stoners" are dangerous on the road because you just assume they are, you would be too.
Have you ever been really drunk or stoned? I'm sorry, but you can't fake being sober when you're really drunk or stoned. You can get your body to awaken, with that ol' second wind, in numerous ways. I also enjoy munching when I get tired behind the wheel... especially if the food is spicy, it'll keep me up for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
Since when is moderation going to kill me? At communion you are supposed to drink wine. I'd drink more wine (alcohol in general) if I took communion like a Catholic than I do now.
The churches I've attended use grape juice. Wine is disgusting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
But if you call Marijuana a "gateway drug" those Rx drugs are actually worse. They cause the same addictions, and Heroin is far cheaper than Oxy. Why buy your fix for $100 when you could get it for $20? Many people who check into Rehab are there for legal Rx drugs.
I used legal narcotic prescription drugs when I was a kid and never once had to check into rehab. Why get a fix at all? Why not just enjoy life legally and morally without having to get a "fix"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
And the ignorance is very much perpetuated by bible thumpers like you who push for religion and not science in schools.
As a PHYSICS teacher, this isn't true. You provide me with much comedy relief, my friend. The smiles and laughs I get reading what you write will surely keep me alive beyond my 100-year goal. I love science and I think that school curricula should focus more on the importance of science. However, science readily disproves a lot of things that scientists like to claim as truths... such as the Big Bang and evolution. Do you think humans evolved from apes? I sure hope not. That's anti-scientific.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
My sister worked as the top civilian executive at the Police Department in a city of about 90,000 people. Most of her officers didn't want to worry about pot because Gangs were a much bigger problem. Police officers in Santa Cruz, Oakland, Denver and San Francisco (among others) have placed Marijuana at the bottom of their pecking order for crimes. There's an organization called "Law Enforcement Against Prohibition" that has brave officers putting their careers on the line to speak out against the moronic prohibition of pot.
I wasn't asking about whether pot usage was a bigger problem than gangs. I know gangs are a big problem for law enforcement officers. I told you to ask about what cops think about the LEGALIZATION of marijuana... not how important it is to them to spend their time trying to bust its users and dealers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
I was born in 1981, but I read things called "history books" that taught me all the problems associated with prohibition. Alcohol Prohibition was one of the most massive failures in American policy history, how is Marijuana any different except that it's safer and less addictive, and the growth of it is cheaper and its plant has many useful by-products.
So you're actually YOUNGER than I am? I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I thought I was talking with an ignorant OLDER adult... now it seems I'm merely talking with an ignorant YOUNGER adult. Yes, I know that hemp has many useful by-products and I'm all in favor of the full legal and non-detrimental utilization of those by-products.

I have two questions for you. You once told me that you thought my life was "joyless" because I refuse to indulge in the usage of drugs and the like. Are you married? Do you love what you do for work?

My guess is that if you could answer yes to both of those, marijuana wouldn't be part of your life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
Duh, the organized crime is FROM PROHIBITION. "Drug gangs" wouldn't exist if there were no illegal drugs. Al Capone made his fortune on illegal alcohol, gambling and prostitution. Budweiser made St Louis and John McCain's wife rich because it was legal.
If nothing were illegal, society would descend rapidly into chaos. Whenever something is illegal, there will be a criminal faction which provides it to those unscrupulous people who still seek it. If murder were legalized, there'd be no "hit men". But yet, there are people who make big bucks murdering for hire. The list of examples of this could go on and on. All you're doing is proving my case that Americans are incapable of self-governing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
What happened to "eye for an eye"? If I smoke pot, the punishment should be the cop smoking pot...otherwise you're not advocating what jesus would advocate.
"Eye for an eye" refers to crimes committed against someone else. If you smoke pot around me, and I am thusly forced to inhale smoke which damages my body, I should be allowed to do something which damages your body equally. (I'm resisting the temptation to use the obvious pun of "beat the tar out of you".)

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
This has absolutely nothing to do with pot. In fact, we're asking for pot to be legalized to make it so we can help support these government programs with the taxes. We're asking to legalize it so LEGITIMATE businesses and jobs will emerge from illegal ones. I work with kids too, and I notice the same problems, but it's the parents' fault. It's their reliance on TV for their kids' to be babysat. Five minutes into my first practice of the year, I can guess a kids home life almost perfectly. But again, this has NOTHING TO DO WITH MARIJUANA.
I agree. So in that case why don't you stop wasting your effort on telling people why a dangerous, detrimental, hallucinogenic substance should be legalized... and instead, spend your time and your energy trying to improve parents' awareness of how they should raise their kids? I can promise you that one of the biggest problems facing kids today is illegitimacy... which is perpetuated by... you got it... people with no religion. I found out yesterday that one of my ex-students is pregnant... she is no more than 17, still a junior in high school, and not married... she is going to make the world's worst mother if she doesn't chicken out and commit murder-- ahem-- get an abortion. This wouldn't happen if premarital sex and extramarital sex were anathematized today as they were back in the day when family units were strong and held sacred. But today, that doesn't happen. In certain ethnicities, around half of the kids born are born out of wedlock. How does that bode for the way they'll be raised? My wife teaches 1st grade and says that only about 25% of her kids live with their mom and dad in a conventional family situation. (Not surprisingly, they're generally her best-performing kids.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
What makes you think prohibition and all the organized crime associated with it, not to mention the evaporation of wealth into the black market, is any better? I'd rather have potheads than drug dealers, wouldn't you? I'd rather have that $5,000,000,000 spent on unsolved kidnappings and murders instead of marijuana. I'd rather see that $20,000,000,000 in revenue taxed and used for social programs than to see us fall further into debt while the Juarez Cartel gets rich and murders dozens...it's really a no-brainer...
What we need is prohibition with special task forces devoted specifically to its enforcement. If people knew that their hands would be chopped off for buying or selling illegal drugs, you'd see that trade evaporate like a drop of water on a Texas summer day. You may think that is unnecessarily Draconian, but the truth of the matter is that it wouldn't be that way if people would just do what is right... including stay away from hallucinogenic drugs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2009, 12:42 PM
 
239 posts, read 309,523 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Well, it is a fact that if any other animal species gets high from (natural) drugs and allows itself to become a hardcore addict evolution will make certain that they will become extinct.
The fact that there are people willing to get high on chemical substances designed to be extremely addictive is a testament to man's stupidity on the account of having lost the natural instinct to survive as an individual (let alone as a species).
You can't become addicted to weed for the 50th time.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2009, 12:58 PM
 
681 posts, read 2,504,166 times
Reputation: 526
Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
Would you like a copy of Florida's handbook? It says that it's a ticketable offense. There are plenty of signs to tell if someone is extremely upset (extremely being the key word here).

You know there is a smiley for your eyes. Use it sometime.
I'm not saying it's not a ticketable offense. There are lots of ticketable offenses. The thing is that it'd have to be PROVEN. That's a tough one to prove. And as for the smiley... well... I'd use it if it didn't look so "happy". I rarely roll my eyes when I'm happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
Okay, okay I gotcha. So, how many Americans are going to kill a person (which crack heads, meth heads, heroin addicts do), are going to commit robbery (remember robbery and stealing are different!), and will do any and all sexual favors for five dollars worth of marijuana? Hell, I could ask around my neighborhood and round up five dollars for christ sake!
If one would do it, that's too many.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
And, I think you are talking about children (who wouldn't be able to get pot legally anyway, if it were legalized) that steal money for candy or just steal candy; many dim witted people can find fifty cents on the ground to buy some candy and many can find five bucks to do the same with marijuana.
If this were true, there wouldn't be so many beggars. You know not all of them REALLY want that money for food.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
Major robberies of stores for some marijuana?



Get real; they would've started with cigarettes and alcohol first.
Apparently you don't watch COPS. I recently saw one where guys broke into a convenience store to steal cartons of cigarettes... and on the same episode it showed a guy running off with a stolen case of beer from a liquor store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
Which is my main point. Many people equate drugs with making (as in forcing unwilling people) to make stupid decisions. I've been arguing this the entire time that substances don't make people do stupid things; it's people that DECIDE to do stupid things.
Substances alter the brain's ability to discern a stupid thing from an intelligent thing. People choose to use drugs but then after using enough of them, their decision-making abilities are compromised by the drugs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
So your all for a nanny or police state? Cuz, that's basically what your saying. We are too stupid to know what to do with ourselves, so we need big brother to spoon feed us how to live.
That comes down from God Himself. Why would God have given us laws to live by if we were intelligent enough to self-govern without them? I'm not for a complete "nanny state", but there are certain things that we have to be protected from and people's stupidity and ignorance often produces those things. We have to be protected from people who aren't intelligent enough to know when they're about to get high and stop using their "recreational drugs" beyond the point of recreationality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
Most Americans don't have the responsibility (which is a very loose term btw, what you think the meaning of responsible is, is shaped by your upbringing, moral, and religious leanings) to do what's right, so we can't entrust them with that freedom.
This is sadly true in a lot of cases. This is why we have speed limits, road signs saying "slippery when wet" (duh), etc... and of course it's also why we have laws that are so numerous that they actually have to make entire "law libraries" for lawyers. I went into one once... the vast quantity of books blew me away! Those books were all about laws and precedents set by courts previously, in the name of those laws. We wouldn't need cops, judges, juries, lawyers, security guards, etc. if we had enough responsibility to be entrusted with all conceivable freedoms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
Btw, know that some don't believe in the bible such as you do and that the term 'lost people' (meaning people that will burn in hell right? Just say what you mean, don't beat around the bush) doesn't mean the same for us all.
Some people don't believe that the Holocaust ever happened, either. Does that mean it didn't? "Lost people" means exactly that... people who aren't on the right path and don't know how to get there. If they remain on the wrong path up to the time they die, yes, they will burn in hell. I didn't make that up... it's in the Bible and I'm merely repeating what I read. I know some people don't believe in the Bible. Actually, it's around 80% of the world's population. (However, Christianity is the single biggest religion in the world. Apparently we know SOMETHING.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
And how are we being protected? Answer me that? More people die BECAUSE of the illegal drug trade (quite a few that are innocent to begin with) than people that die FROM drug abuse.
Produce proof of this, my friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
How in the hell does that make any bit of sense? How are we being protected when drug cartels shoot up neighborhoods over TERRITORY; over land? How are we being protected when there are certain parts of towns in cities that police do not go into because they will be shot upon sight? How are we being protected when a child dies in the cross fire between two enemy gangs? What type of protection are we receiving? How are we being protected from ourselves when the drugs are readily available and coming in streams? What kind of protection does prohibtion offer?
Then the cops should wear bulletproof vests and drive bulletproof cars. If Neanderthals who deal drugs can be this dangerous, surely technology can help out our police officers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
It's not about ethics or morals or doing what's right. It's about making money and they don't give a damn about you, the don't give a damn about me, and they surely don't give a damn about your kids. All they care about is their money and they will do whatever it takes to keep that money coming. Don't fool or delude yourself into thinking that we have a prohibtion to protect us from ourselves or to keep the fabric of society together.
This is probably true but despite the duality of its purpose, the illegality of drugs does protect us from ourselves to a point. I know that politicians are almost all in the gig for the money. Why not, after all? Why be a politician if you wouldn't be paid for it? Why not sweep floors and at least make minimum wage for your time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
Realize that you are constantly being duped, deceived, and lied to. The difference between a fool and a intellect is that the intellect knows that he's being lied to.
Apparently then 52% of Americans are fools... as was evidenced by a certain "momentous" event back in the beginning of November.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
You're not a conservative: you are either a neocon or a socially conservative person. The term itself leans toward a more libertarian stance. It's been wrung through the mud so much throughout the years that people don't even know what it means anymore.
I sure am glad that there are so many people on this forum who know me better than I know myself. If I stay here long enough, I may achieve Nirvana.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
And everyone killed in a war is the son/daughter, spouse, mother/father of someone out there. I'm all for doing away with needless war and bloodshed.
Good, at least we agree on something. You should apply this to everything you say, however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
And also, I'd be more concerned about having a family member that just died, not about the other idiot that decided to drive under the influence. I'd want that person prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for the crime (it is vehicular manslaughter and a DWI). But because I have a brain, I'd be able to realize that it's because of that person's stupidity that made them get behind the wheel of a car while high.
What if the alcohol made them unaware of what they were doing? I've never been unaware of what I was doing at any point in my life but I have known people who were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
I'd probably call for more strict laws on those who violate the law and the death of someone results from it; but I'd also realize that I can never get my family member back no matter how much I wanted to take away the rights of others. I'd realize that pot wasn't the reason my family member died, it was the stupidity of another to drive while high on it.
It was the stupidity of the person to USE it. Once stoned, as I said before, a person's decision-making ability is compromised. If that weren't the case, it'd be a lot harder to advocate for marijuana's continued illegality. In the end, the only reason why alcohol isn't illegalized is because too many people have started enjoying it and the profits that can be realized from it. That is apparently more important than the tens of thousands of people who are killed every year in drunk-driving accidents.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2009, 02:28 PM
 
19,081 posts, read 21,233,678 times
Reputation: 13392
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWPAguy View Post
As a PHYSICS teacher, this isn't true. You provide me with much comedy relief, my friend. The smiles and laughs I get reading what you write will surely keep me alive beyond my 100-year goal. I love science and I think that school curricula should focus more on the importance of science. However, science readily disproves a lot of things that scientists like to claim as truths... such as the Big Bang and evolution. Do you think humans evolved from apes? I sure hope not. That's anti-scientific.
Last I knew, humans are apes. And how does science disprove evolution?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top