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Old 03-17-2009, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 4,720,623 times
Reputation: 976

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple_Princess View Post
Lower the drinking age to 18. Place a rider on it that states you must leave high school either by graduation or GED by your 18th birthday.
How would this be enforceable? It seems like it is too difficult to police.

 
Old 03-17-2009, 09:20 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,970 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcashley View Post
Well, in my experience, and thinking back to when I was 18---
18 year olds are not mature enough to get married.
18 year olds are not mature enough to run companies.
18 year olds are not mature enough to make major life decisions.

But we let them do it anyway....what is wrong with us?
Your 100% wrong... There are 3 CEO's under the age of 18 that run major companies and some which are millionaire's. With companies so successful and driven. How can you say they are not "Mature" enough to run companies? How would you know, your just an average person like everybody else.

However, i do agree with the MARRIAGE fact. And yes some 18 year old's are not mature enough to make major life decisions, but SOME are. It all depends on the maturity level of the individual. I myself am 18 and sometimes question my life decisions, but then again who doesn't. Everybody at one point of there life question's the major life decisions they have made. I do disagree with your second point though...
 
Old 03-17-2009, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,031 posts, read 98,929,643 times
Reputation: 31501
From the early days of this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by leangk View Post
good i completely agree. canada has a drinking age of 18 and we definently dont have a drinking problem here, prolly less than the US> france is 16 and i also dont see a drinking issue.
See this:

Study: U.S., Euro Teen Drinking Compared (http://www.parent-teen.com/newsreleases2001/eurodrinking.html - broken link)
 
Old 03-17-2009, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 4,720,623 times
Reputation: 976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
From the early days of this thread:



See this:

Study: U.S., Euro Teen Drinking Compared (http://www.parent-teen.com/newsreleases2001/eurodrinking.html - broken link)
Americans are less disciplined than Canadians or French.
 
Old 03-17-2009, 11:26 PM
 
Location: Pensacola, Fl
656 posts, read 952,518 times
Reputation: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
I am curious what you think about raising the driving age to 18 AND lowering the drinking age to 18. Do you think that kids should be able to get learner's permits before turning 18 and that parents should be allowed to teach their kids to drive?
Something similar to that. Just like 15 year olds can get learners permits but cannot legally drive by themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
And do you think that 18-20 year old drivers should have the .08 legal limit...or do you think the zero tolerance laws should remain?
I think the zero tolerance law should be abolished only when adults are involved (as in 18 or older). The point of raising the driving age and lowering the drinking age is to prevent the younger crowd (14-17) from obtaining alcohol and driving while under the influence (I don't know about you but I was actually scared to get in a car by myself when I only had my permit - that whole if I get into an accident and get caught thing was a major detterent for me).

Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
In many countries with drinking ages of 16 or 18, there are laws that ban driving by young drivers after drinking any alcohol...and yes these young drivers HAVE reached the legal drinking age.
I don't see a problem with that. In fact I would stretch it so that all people are banned from driving after consuming alcohol. It's safer for everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcashley View Post
Clearly you do give a damn...you are angrily posting on this web site.
Well duh I do give a damn (if I didn't I wouldn't be posting). And btw, I'm not angry, rarely do I get angry at people over the internet.

What I was saying that about was in response to afoigrokeikok's statement saying that my view on this would change when I got older. I simply retorted I didn't care (didn't give a damn) what age I was at, my view on this issue wouldn't change.

Please, don't try to take me out of context next time will ya?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcashley View Post
...and if you really do not want to embrace society's rules, you can expect quite a few surprises in your life--perhaps they won't be surprises, as you undoubtedly expect to be legally sanctioned, lose your job(s), etc.
I don't embrace society's rules that I blatantly know are wrong or incorrect. It's very naive to think that just because a law says so that it is right. It was also right and law at one time to have seperate but equal schooling for blacks and whites. It was also right to supress women and treat them as subhumans. It was right and law at one time to gather up all Japanese Americans and put them in camps. Just because something is law or a 'rule of society' does not make it right in the least. We violate the constituition everyday yet nothing is done about it. Is that right and should we embrace it because society says so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcashley View Post
It is reasons like those you've given that cause many people to judge the under 21 crowd as being immature.
How so? Please elaborate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dcashley View Post
It is reasons such as those cited above in scientific studies that cause most adults (you probably call them "grown-ups") to resist lowering the legal drinking age.
Classic. Nice low ball there. You chastise me for being immature yet you throw insults toward me? Nice way to prove your point, 'grown up.'
 
Old 03-17-2009, 11:50 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,130,238 times
Reputation: 17979
Many other european coutnries are raising the drink age because of young drunks causing so much trouble.
 
Old 03-18-2009, 05:11 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,778,884 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
I don't embrace society's rules that I blatantly know are wrong or incorrect. It's very naive to think that just because a law says so that it is right. It was also right and law at one time to have seperate but equal schooling for blacks and whites. It was also right to supress women and treat them as subhumans. It was right and law at one time to gather up all Japanese Americans and put them in camps. Just because something is law or a 'rule of society' does not make it right in the least. We violate the constituition everyday yet nothing is done about it. Is that right and should we embrace it because society says so?
HAHAHA. This is hilarious. So you're actually asking us to buy that preventing teenagers from drinking alcohol is as "wrong" as segregated schools or preventing women from voting or working or putting Japanese in camps. It would be "wrong" of us TO allow 18 year olds to legally drink alcohol actually. The science proves it.

The drinking age set at 21 is 100% constitutional btw. So don't even think of bringing the Constitution into this.

You're just upset that you are not fully labeled an adult. You're probably exactly 18 and are sitting here having a whine-fest and pout-fest because you think that 18 year olds are ohhh so cool. (You know, since you think you're an "adult" all the sudden). I bet next year, the age you'll think is so cool is 19. The year after that, it'll be 20.

If you think you're so grown up, start acting like it. Your ONLY real argument for lowering the drinking age has been that you feel it's unfair to you because you are such an "adult."

Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 03-18-2009 at 05:44 AM..
 
Old 03-18-2009, 05:12 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,778,884 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
From the early days of this thread:



See this:

Study: U.S., Euro Teen Drinking Compared (http://www.parent-teen.com/newsreleases2001/eurodrinking.html - broken link)
Did you see the links I posted the other day? Some interesting stuff re teen drinking in Europe. And, most interestingly, one of the articles is about the UK pondering an increase in its drinking age to 21.

BBC NEWS | Health | Call to raise drinking age to 21

Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 03-18-2009 at 05:23 AM..
 
Old 03-18-2009, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Norwood, MN
1,828 posts, read 3,282,690 times
Reputation: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
its not too often someone complains about a cliche then follows up with one (apples and oranges). but the old enough to fight argument does apply, its a question of responsibility.

The government believes an 18 year old is responsible enough to: get married, have children, buy a house, vote, enter the armed services and possibly fight in a war, but if that man drinks a beer with dinner in the confines of his own home in the company of his wife and kid he has broken the law. An 18 year old is old enough to handle alcohol, nobody can debate that.

The REAL debate is what will the 18 year old do for those under the age of 18. will they disperse alcohol to minors (very likely) or will they only consume the alcohol themselves. Drinking should be like driving, it should be licensed and the right to buy alcohol taken away for any violation, like distributing to minors, drinking underage etc. and you cannot get your license for x # of months/years depending on number of violations. if a person can lose their right to buy alcohol you may find they are less likely to risk distribution to minors.
I dont think anyone thinks it is a good idea for 18 year olds to get married and have children. Just because it is legal certainly doesnt mean it is recommended.
 
Old 03-18-2009, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Pensacola, Fl
656 posts, read 952,518 times
Reputation: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
HAHAHA. This is hilarious. So you're actually asking us to buy that preventing teenagers from drinking alcohol is as "wrong" as segregated schools or preventing women from voting or working or putting Japanese in camps.
I was simply showing that always following "society's rules" is not always the right thing to do. I just gave a few cases where following society's rules was flat out wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
It would be "wrong" of us TO allow 18 year olds to legally drink alcohol actually. The science proves it.
If you are even going to try to bring science into this, then science tells us that the drinking age should be set at about 25. The term 'wrong' is as subjective as it gets (which has nothing to do with science at all). What you might consider 'wrong' I might consider right and vice versa. Obviously some countries in Europe have done 'wrong' by setting their drinking age a whole lot lower and look! They don't have nearly as much problems as we do with alcohol. Hmm I wonder why?


[/quote]The drinking age set at 21 is 100% constitutional btw. So don't even think of bringing the Constitution into this.[/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
You're just upset that you are not fully labeled an adult.
Not really. It's pretty awesome that I can get a car loan and buy a house. Seems pretty adult like to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
You're probably exactly 18 and are sitting here having a whine-fest and pout-fest because you think that 18 year olds are ohhh so cool. (You know, since you think you're an "adult" all the sudden).
Oh yes, because I am so awesome (really I am)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
I bet next year, the age you'll think is so cool is 19. The year after that, it'll be 20.
Actually I like the age of about 40. When I get there, I'll be rolling big.

Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
If you think you're so grown up, start acting like it. Your ONLY real argument for lowering the drinking age has been that you feel it's unfair to you because you are such an "adult."
Actually my real argument for lowering the drinking age is because it does nothing but create a statistic (a very negative one at that). We raise the age but don't do anything to try to deter underage binge drinking but only use more force hoping for a different outcome. If we placed more emphasis on education and actually learning about the dangers and effects of alcohol you'd see the statistic drop. If we normalized and realized that alcohol is a part of life and it's not going to change we'd see the statistic drop. Instead we rant and rave, use more force than anything else (don't you know that the best way to get someone to rebel is to force them?), and through education into the wind.

And btw, I'm in school and I work my ass off every day to make it better for myself. Please don't sit here and tell me that you know me when you don't. It get's old really quick when holier than thou, ominescent as god, know it alls get online and chastise me for saying what I think. If you're so dead set against it, do some rallying to keep it that way. Meanwhile, I'll be joining my own support groups and rally for what I think is right. It seems you need to do some growing up and become an adult also. Because from my understanding, adults don't have to through around insults and condescend to get their points across. Pot meet kettle. Perfect.
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