U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Easter!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-26-2008, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,064,818 times
Reputation: 3717

Advertisements

SuSuSushi and gloryB: you guys usually add some nice and well thought out comments, as above. But I'd also appreciate your answer to the OP if you could. I know some comments can foment an alternate response, but I'm also hoping to see what the consensus is, again without insults.

Thanks guys!

Back to my bleacher seat. And thx to Reads2Much for editing unfriendly language.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-27-2008, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Eastern Kentucky
1,237 posts, read 2,641,254 times
Reputation: 1262
Of course I'm proud to be an American. We've got our problems, but I believe we will work them out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-27-2008, 08:37 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 4,491,128 times
Reputation: 1846
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
In many of these posts, in our local newspaper and on various Sunday morning navel-gazing national TV discussion shows, we often see Americans who proclaim they are not proud to be Americans. That we're now known as international bullies, sticking our noses in to where it doesn't belong. Trying to "force" democracy. Probably all true, and deserving of some serious reconsideration of our role and place in the new century.
I think that part of this problem is that many people and the media only give you two options. If, I, as an American am critical of our foreign policy (and every country in the world has its very own critics) then I am seen as anti-American. There were only two options.



Quote:
Are you now proud (or were you ever...) to be an American?

Inherent in that would be, "do you see that we have the largess, the spirit, the demonstrated generosity and honesty to overcome our failures, our possible mis-directions, our past mistakes" ? In your thinking on your response, do you still want to support and be part of this country?
Being an American is a responsibility. On the Domestic scene there are Americans that go above and beyond and I think to myself that individual rocks. Not as an American but as a human. This person found a gap in society and did everything that they could to fill that gap.

Now, our foreign policy is another matter all together. No, I'm not proud at all. In fact, its almost humiliating to step off into another country. Not just because of our foreign policy but because of the snot nose brats who get drunk and try to dance naked in whatever little downtown square is going on. Then there is the attitude that some Americans carry into other countries.

Could this country turn itself around? It could, but it won't. Especially, if I have to utilize pride in one's citizenship by your definition. Your really only giving me two options here.

It is worth noting that we are not alone in this world to fully air our failings and subject them to chat-room and the pretense of "free" talk show analysis. What are we down to, now, 3 media conglomerates? Less than 2,000 sources of independent media? It is worth noting to qualify as an independent media source there only need by one publication a year. Your told what to think with the talk show analysis.

People in other countries find ways to communicate with each other when critizing their governments. It may not happen in the manner that you are accustomed to seeing, but really how much attention do you pay to what is happening in their localities? You can go to newspapers in other countries and often find comments left by the citizens of that country.

Your line of questioning presents the if you don't like it you can leave. You can dress it up but you cannot take it out. This is why I am not very optimistic. The issues listed in your first paragraph that you say are "probably true" and your definition of pride indicate an unwillingness to deal with the issues at all. We, as Americans, no longer have any time to wait for you(general) to sort it all out. I would not be a good proud American if I did not tell you that your questions focus on a continued media created division based on false ego within this country.

Ok, that is all I have for brutal honesty this early in the morning.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-27-2008, 08:51 AM
 
5,273 posts, read 11,910,304 times
Reputation: 5750
Now that much of our industry is gone gubernatorial elections thrown and now we're facing the real possibility of a presidential election being fraudulent... no, I'm not so pround of being an american. Sure, it's the country where I live and there are many worse places to be, but we're no longer a truly democratic society and while some basic human rights are being advanced, many more are being trampled.

We are a nation in shame.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-27-2008, 09:13 AM
 
Location: DC area
1,669 posts, read 2,155,417 times
Reputation: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
In many of these posts, in our local newspaper and on various Sunday morning navel-gazing national TV discussion shows, we often see Americans who proclaim they are not proud to be Americans. That we're now known as international bullies, sticking our noses in to where it doesn't belong. Trying to "force" democracy. Probably all true, and deserving of some serious reconsideration of our role and place in the new century.

So. My question, without inviting rancorous item-specific debate about the above issues, is simply:

Are you now proud (or were you ever...) to be an American?

*snip*
I am proud and will always be proud to be an American. The ideas this country was based on are still a thing to marvel. However, I am not proud of all the things we have done - especially in the last 8 years. That doesn't change my pride in my country, only our actions.

Quote:
It is worth noting that, almost alone in this world, we fully air our failings and subject them to chat-room and talk-show analysis, where (as we see often) citizens from other countries like to rub our problems and mistakes in our noses regularly, as if they were punishing a bad dog. Unfortunately for them, they will never know, and are obviously unaware, that they are subject to the thought-control of their own governments , where, they firmly believe, life is perfect . In such heavenly places as Bosnia, Iran, Cuba, N. Korea, Venezuela, France and on and on. (Try even having a discussion on my proposed thread in any of those places!)
That is true to a point but I must admit I was stunned to learn the other day that we rank 36th in the world when it comes to freedom of the press - out of 169 countries. It's going to take me awhile to wrap my head around that because us being ranked so low is the opposite of everything I was taught and raised to believe.

Reporters sans frontières - Annual Worldwide Press Freedom Index - 2008

Quote:
I think that part of this problem is that many people and the media only give you two options. If, I, as an American am critical of our foreign policy (and every country in the world has its very own critics) then I am seen as anti-American. There were only two options.
True enough. The resurgent idea that you must fully support something or be labeled anti-American disturbs the bejesus out of me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-27-2008, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,064,818 times
Reputation: 3717
Red face Reply to Pandemonium.

First, thanks, Pandemonium, for the early morning brutality! Like a good slap in the face!

To better address some of your concerns: Perhaps there are only two answers to the original OP question. Either one is proud to be an American, warts and all, or one is not proud to be an American. I didn't mean so much, "Are you proud at this instant in time, based on Mr. Bush's foreign policies?" but rather "Are you, at your base, fundamentally proud of this country and what good it has done, or might do?" Or perhaps I should add an alternate clarification: "Can you still be proud of this country given it's transgressions but acknowledging it's achievements?" .

A kind of "Is there hope or not?" sort of honest thought provoker.

What I was trying to add in with my notes was that I hoped responders didn't just conclude either a blind love of this country, as with some ultra-redneck flag waving types, or alternately that they were perhaps no longer proud, and never could be again, because of our recent forgettable past. I hate what some of our politicians and media and college vacationers have done to our country and its reputation. It's truly inexcusable. And hopefully we might correct some of it in November.

I only wanted to point out some of the better aspects of this country, as I listed them, to offset some attacks on what we are right now. Especially in the possibly biased and politically motivated eyes of some other countrymen. Are we worth defending in an argument? Despite naked dancing college vacationers? Or, more seriously, Donald Rumsfeldt's arrogance and conceit? Quite possibly not. But some of the readers might not even know about our more glorious past accomplishments (Lunar landings, medical science, the iPod {well...}). Or our evil transgressions (Vietnam, Iraq, exteme capitalism, the iPod...).

I just wanted folks to sit back and think about it, not to vote by venting their justifiable current anger or by saying they couldn't be proud to be an American any more. I admit some bias, since I immigrated here, and I know that other countries also have their problems. Hah! If only all of us knew!

I do think it's worth a try to save all of this. Others may not. I wanted an honest poll, and I appreciate your concerns and ideas. If I felt it was hopeless, I'd move to a hidden S. Pacific island and eat coconuts. And fresh sushi! If it is the consensus, then mayhaps we will fail, and some new wonder regime will appear. Then I will be gone.

Thanks again, Pandemonium et al. Enjoy your coffee!

Last edited by rifleman; 10-27-2008 at 12:01 PM.. Reason: typos, clarity
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-27-2008, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Texas
42,220 posts, read 49,768,169 times
Reputation: 66976
Been all over the world and have come to the inescapable conclusion that this is the best place on the planet.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-27-2008, 12:04 PM
 
16 posts, read 31,915 times
Reputation: 16
I am VERY much proud to be an American up until Nov. 4th. If Obama gets elected I will have to seriously consider sticking it out, or moving to another country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-27-2008, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Ottawa, Canada
609 posts, read 1,043,538 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuSuSushi View Post
You're so very wrong on that one, this is not a feudal society where the rich prevent the poor from finding their own way to fortune. Anyone in this country has the opportunity to make themselves wealthy. There's no rulebook that says it's only one out of 11 and that the ten have to be dirt poor for that 11th person to be rich.
I, not wrong. everyone is promised to be given the chance at the american dream. and although this is sometimes a controversial undefinable thing, what i put it down is to financial success.

the difference though in say america compared to europe, is that evn if you dont get that ceo job, are a succesful business person; actor singer or whatever, you can still make a living iwthout being in the lower class.

according to same, the lower class contains around 25% of americans, and the the top 3 percent of america control 90% of the wealth.

theres no rulebook that says that the other 10 people must be dirt poor, but when you look at all the jobs in america that must be filled, and have low or poor pay/ benefits, those that dont "make it" must take their place. all the jobs at mcdonalds, kfc, walmart and all those other poor paying jobs have alot of people who work at the bottom and make very little, and then those at the top that make alot.

thats bascically the structure of the dream im talking about.

anyone in almost every other developed country has the equal oppurtunity to make themselves rich, the diffference is that that in those; often socialist countries, those that dont make it dont ahve to be extremely poor, and those that are rich dont have to be extremely rich.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-27-2008, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Ottawa, Canada
609 posts, read 1,043,538 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by elvislives View Post
Would you like to buy my french rifle it has never been fired and only dropped once...
hahaha im not even french. im british and canadian. probably americas top allies in the world. I love america, but doesnt mean im about to overlook the social injustices. in france whenever i hear someone attack the US, im the first to stand up and defend them.

I too make fun of the french though. often relating to thier true national flag being the white one, and asking whats the shortest book ever written? "french military victories"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top