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Just like ordinary civilians can't 'play' doctor (we can't even pronounce someone dead even when their head is removed from the neck), we also shouldn't be allowed to play judge and give someone an immediate death sentence.
Self-defence does not automatically mean that killing is involved.
Unfortunately using a gun does exactly that; it is designed to kill.
Finally - you admit that someone should not be allowed to defend their life or the life of another - thank you
However, the FACT remains, that our laws allow a person to defend themselves - including the use of deadly force. And, as you know - I have personal experience with this - and hopefully will never have to do it again.
Finally - you admit that someone should not be allowed to defend their life or the life of another - thank you
Defending yourself and killing someone are still 2 entirely different things.
In The Netherlands everyone has the right to defend themselves, except excessive force is still illegal. And the use of guns easily constitutes the use of excessive force.
Defending yourself and killing someone are still 2 entirely different things.
Really? We didn't know that over here. We thought that you HAD to kill everyone you might be suspicious of out on the streets, just walking along! Wonder why this killing spree by all of us legal-Carry permitees hasn't been noticed in the press! (You're SO smart and well-informed, Trick-meister!)
In The Netherlands everyone has the right to defend themselves, except excessive force is still illegal.
Everyone does, in most of the free world. "Excessive Force" is also illegal most everywhere, even here. Wow! Another piece of enlightened info!
And the use of guns easily constitutes the use of excessive force.
Only sometimes, or in YOUR so very limited mind-view. "Excessive force" is defined as being, well, "excessive" and unnecessary. "Excessive Use of Force" is a felony in the US. People who do so are charged. Self-defence doesn't constitute "excessive". In Holland, perhaps?
Apparently you've never been attacked with the immediate and obvious threat of extreme bodily harm to yourself or your family. I know, you'd simply "dialog" with the knife-wielding perp. (See my long-ago self-defence options questions to you).
Under US and Canadian law (and, I'm willing to bet a sum of Euros, even in Holland...), if we feel honestly threatened, life or limb, we may legally use reasonable force up to and including "lethal". Thats' logical, obvious to a reasonable person, and also optional, in your case or in the case of a "love-in" hippie Buddhist nutto. You, perhaps?
Two: How utterly predictable you are! I said that instead of answering a debator's simple questions, you'd resort to ad hominem attacks to deflect the argument. You did: to my reference to hating stubborn people, you replied: "Than (sic) you must truly hate your own reflection in the mirror"
Well, since the obvious answer to that silly zinger is "no" I guess your ongoing powers of perception are as flawed as we've all come to recognize.
And again, you still haven't answered any of our's or my pesky questions yet. Gonna? Any time soon? Ever? I doubt it. You'd have to give up being stubborn, hostile and argumentative. Well, come on back. I know exactly what to expect now.
(Hey guys: let's all chant, together, "Answer The Questions!" "Answer The Questions" until it sinks in. Or he leaves. Whichever...)
(this is tooooo easy...)
P&L2A rflmn™
Last edited by rifleman; 12-17-2008 at 11:47 AM..
Reason: typos
Originally Posted by Greatday Defending yourself and killing someone are still 2 entirely different things.
In The Netherlands everyone has the right to defend themselves, except excessive force is still illegal.
And the use of guns easily constitutes the use of excessive force.
In the United States, Deadly Force is not necessarily "excessive force" - Americans are allowed to use the amount of force necessary to protect themselves and others. If it means killing the criminal, so be it.
In the United States, Deadly Force is not necessarily "excessive force" - Americans are allowed to use the amount of force necessary to protect themselves and others.
And the only reason for this is the US weapons industry.
Otherwise you would need a gun licence to be able to buy a gun. Then again, your US tobacco industry was also able to keep it a public secret that smoking is actually bad for your health, so I shouldn't expect any different.
Originally Posted by rifleman
Quote:
Everyone does, in most of the free world.
I guess stupidity is more common in the free world since it is very easy in the US for people with mental health problems to buy a gun.
In the Netherlands you won't be able to get a gun licence when you suffer from schizophrenia, combat stress, (manic) depression or any other mental health problem.
Originally Posted by GreatdayAnd the only reason for this is the US weapons industry.
Nope, wrong again. The only reason for it is we have a government that the citizenry put together & because of that we value our people & their rights more than the Monarchy that let you have limited freedom.
The gun industry is actually not all that big & certainly it isn't influential in the manner you seem to think.
Quote:
Otherwise you would need a gun licence to be able to buy a gun. Then again, your US tobacco industry was also able to keep it a public secret that smoking is actually bad for your health, so I shouldn't expect any different.
Whats tobacco got to do with guns?
Quote:
I guess stupidity is more common in the free world since it is very easy in the US for people with mental health problems to buy a gun.
In the Netherlands you won't be able to get a gun licence when you suffer from schizophrenia, combat stress, (manic) depression or any other mental health problem.
Its easy to ascertain, simply from reading your posts, that stupidity is not absent in the Netherlands.
In free countries you dont need a license to own things.
You are mistaken. It is because of the 2nd Amendment to the United States Constitution.
How about the pursuit of happiness?
Don't US criminals have the same constitutional right to pursue their happiness and commit crimes if this is what makes them happy?
Originally Posted by Greatday How about the pursuit of happiness?
Don't US criminals have the same constitutional right to pursue their happiness and commit crimes if this is what makes them happy?
How is a criminal doing what makes him/her happy the same thing as a person owning a gun?
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Defending yourself and killing someone are still 2 entirely different things.
And the use of guns easily constitutes the use of excessive force.
"answer the questions" ... "answer the questions"
Then again, your US tobacco industry was also able to keep it a public secret that smoking is actually bad for your health, so I shouldn't expect any different.
I guess stupidity is more common in the free world since it is very easy in the US for people with mental health problems to buy a gun.
So you're claiming that your US weapons industry is not a billion $ industry?
