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Old 12-18-2008, 03:42 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,319,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
Let's Try This: Back to the OP (it's here somewhere, I know it...):

My final answer?

I'm not so sure they have been increasingly restricted in recent years. We've actually seen some common-sense relaxations and revocations (such as the pointless and thus sunsetted Assault Weapons Bill) as well as a huge increase in concealed weapons carry permittees, the monumental WA, D.C. Heller decision, and an expansion of allowable magazine capacities, etc. The observed and recorded facts fully prove out that increased weapons restrictions have only increased crime everywhere else on this planet.

I and others have provided proof on this thread that America is NOT the most homicidal and gun-violent country despite being the most culturally diverse, and with the greatest range of wealth / poverty on the planet. In principal we should have a spectacularly high crime rate and yet we do not.

Some try to compare their tiny little insignificant micro-cultures, societal nano-philosophies and criminal mind-sets to ours; it's totally irrelevant. Dubai = Mexico = Kanada = Belgium = Holland = The United States of America? In actuality, we do a h#ll of a good job here, in fact, and we're getting better at it because we are open in airing and correcting our own dirty laundry.

That's why tens of thousands of people try to float, swim, hot-air balloon, drive, run, slither, SCUBA or FedEx themselves into this country. Not into Holland or any of those others I noted just above. Well, except Kanada, but then they promptly sneak into the US!

Our American culture is evolving in a positive way.

I do, though, now fully expect the old style Dems to come out of the woodwork, with their blind and arrogant "We Know Best" stupid hate-driven socialist logic. They'll try to enact a whole new set of useless restrictions. Frankly I welcome their efforts as they won't even "see it coming" in the mid-terms and 2012. If they are so brain- and logic-less that they think we can be easily dealt out of the deal, so much the better for us.

But increased recent restrictions? Nope. Hasn't really happened. For perfectly good reasons.

There. Done. Let the silly games continue!

You are very right, in the past few years we have made headway as common sense prevails. Its a reletive thing tho, I tend to think of the later half of the 20th century as the recent past & thats when gun control went from arguably reasonable, to off the wall antics of today.
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:00 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,516,394 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Greatday
Quote:
And luckily, the American Government agrees with me
I'm sure the US criminals would agree with you; nobody should ever be penalized for carrying a gun.


Originally Posted by Tin Knocker
Quote:
You are very right, in the past few years we have made headway as common sense prevails.
I'm sure stricter safety regulations has had nothing to do with the restriction of handguns (read: depressed / unstable kids bringing their guns to school and killing as many as they can as if they are playing a video game).
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 9,251,619 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Greatday I'm sure the US criminals would agree with you; nobody should ever be penalized for carrying a gun.


Originally Posted by Tin Knocker I'm sure stricter safety regulations has had nothing to do with the restriction of handguns (read: depressed / unstable kids bringing their guns to school and killing as many as they can as if they are playing a video game).

AEI - Short Publications - Oversight Hearing on the District of Columbia's Gun Control Laws (http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.22768/pub_detail.asp - broken link)
read it!

areas where gun control is relaxed show a decrease in crime.

Criminals would LOVE for our government to implement a gun ban, they would be able to commit their crimes with little fear of retaliation by a law abiding citizen.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:50 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,516,394 times
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Originally Posted by Noahma
Quote:
Criminals would LOVE for our government to implement a gun ban, they would be able to commit their crimes with little fear of retaliation by a law abiding citizen.
That is only because carrying a gun is not a crime in the US.
If it was criminals could get arrested for just carrying 1 without doing anything else criminal.
If you needed to require a gun licence it would soon become different, because if a criminal commits a crime (any crime) he simply should, besides doing time for having committed the crime, lose his gun licence.
But your government & gun industry doesn't want people to need a gun license in order to own a gun, because that would cost them millions of $.

The problem with the US is that although you have the death penalty (the ultimate crime deterrent for sane people) and are tough on crime, you still are the nation with the most inmates.
Quote:
The United States has less than 5 percent of the world’s population. But it has almost a quarter of the world’s prisoners.

Indeed, the United States leads the world in producing prisoners, a reflection of a relatively recent and now entirely distinctive American approach to crime and punishment. Americans are locked up for crimes — from writing bad checks to using drugs — that would rarely produce prison sentences in other countries. And in particular they are kept incarcerated far longer than prisoners in other nations.

Criminologists and legal scholars in other industrialized nations say they are mystified and appalled by the number and length of American prison sentences.

The United States has, for instance, 2.3 million criminals behind bars, more than any other nation, according to data maintained by the International Center for Prison Studies at King’s College London.
(...)
Criminologists and legal experts here and abroad point to a tangle of factors to explain America’s extraordinary incarceration rate: higher levels of violent crime, harsher sentencing laws, a legacy of racial turmoil, a special fervor in combating illegal drugs, the American temperament, and the lack of a social safety net. Even democracy plays a role, as judges — many of whom are elected, another American anomaly — yield to populist demands for tough justice.
(...)
The nation’s relatively high violent crime rate, partly driven by the much easier availability of guns here, helps explain the number of people in American prisons.
“The assault rate in New York and London is not that much different,” said Marc Mauer, the executive director of the Sentencing Project, a research and advocacy group. “But if you look at the murder rate, particularly with firearms, it’s much higher.”

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/us/23prison.html
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Old 12-19-2008, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 9,251,619 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Noahma That is only because carrying a gun is not a crime in the US.
If it was criminals could get arrested for just carrying 1 without doing anything else criminal.
If you needed to require a gun licence it would soon become different, because if a criminal commits a crime (any crime) he simply should, besides doing time for having committed the crime, lose his gun licence.
But your government & gun industry doesn't want people to need a gun license in order to own a gun, because that would cost them millions of $.

The problem with the US is that although you have the death penalty (the ultimate crime deterrent for sane people) and are tough on crime, you still are the nation with the most inmates.
did you even read the study I posted? or did you just simply cut it out of your quote?
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:12 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,516,394 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Noahma
Quote:
did you even read the study I posted? or did you just simply cut it out of your quote?
Did you read the NYtimes article I posted?
The conclusion of that article is that you Americans have a highly politicized criminal justice system.
Your court doesn't do what is best for the nation, but what the masses believe to be the best for your nation; in short if there is enough (public) support your court & politicians would (and could) decide to turn back the clock and reinstate racial segregation like it was normally the case before the 1950s.
So the problem with a highly politicized criminal justice system is that the Salem Witch trials and McCarthy's HUAC are still a possibility in this day and age.
All you need is a large enough public support.
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,361,805 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
If it was criminals could get arrested for just carrying 1 without doing anything else criminal.
A convicted felon is prohibited from carrying / possessing a firearm. If they are found with one, they can be arrested contrary to your statement above
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:55 AM
 
820 posts, read 1,057,751 times
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The "prohibited persons" concept works quite well when it is applied.
It's a very useful tool:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
A convicted felon is prohibited from carrying / possessing a firearm. If they are found with one, they can be arrested contrary to your statement above
www.atf.gov

Run a search for prohibited persons , I did and got over 6,000 hits. Check out the very first memo: " Prosecution of Prohibited Persons...".
Yet some people claim that guns are not regulated in the US.

Last edited by gbear48; 12-19-2008 at 09:17 AM.. Reason: Change person to persons and mention the memo.
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:52 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,516,394 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Greatday
Quote:
A convicted felon is prohibited from carrying / possessing a firearm. If they are found with one, they can be arrested contrary to your statement above
The thing is that your police can't search a suspected citizen under the ‘false’ suspicion of being a convicted criminal carrying a gun (if he's not the convicted felon he'll most like sue the police if they did), while the Dutch police can stop any civilian when we suspect that he is carrying a gun without checking if he is a criminal or not.
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:58 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,319,821 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post


I'm sure stricter safety regulations has had nothing to do with the restriction of handguns (read: depressed / unstable kids bringing their guns to school and killing as many as they can as if they are playing a video game).
No regulation can prevent that. As it is, regulations enable it, by banning law abiding carry.
A disturbed kid knows full well that he can do as he wants without fear of serous oposition. Since we arent the Netherlands, & we are free & guns are a reality, its stupid to think that a gun free zone will be anything but a magnet for tragedy. Your socialist doctrine doesn't work here.
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