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Old 11-07-2008, 10:27 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,319,821 times
Reputation: 2558

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post

Quote:
Here is the deal, we are not talking about the same thing. So, let me try this again. It had occured to me after that first post that I made, that you can be a criminal and own a gun and still be a criminal but not use a gun in the crime. Meaning that you (Youse realize that all youse are general, correct?) can still be a criminal............you just haven't been caught yet and the crimes do not even have to have anything to do with guns. Your still commiting crimes, you legitimately own a gun......just not arrested yet.......still a criminal.

I'm pretty sure that if you deliberately run down and murder a bunch of children AND you get out. You don't win a gun. Cause, criminals don't care about the law, remember?


Free speech is not entirely free, there are 4 legal limitations at this time. That would be another thread. Registration is great. I don't see precisely how it takes away your rights. Maybe you could describe that in detail.

However, I would love to see your statistics, could you get those for me?
Who said they win a gun? The point is why deny them a civil liberty that theres no reason to expect they would abuse. The scenerio was obviously extreme but I was & still am trying to illistrate some of the already existing pointless laws on the books. Theres no need for more.

Look, the statistics are in several threads still active. Its pretty much common knowledge. If you dont know that Chicage, NYC, LA, DC, & other big cities have high crime rates you should pay better attention.

Free speech has limits but its not until after you shout fire in a theater that you have trouble. You are allowed to talk there & your mouth doesn't require registration.

Once registration is required registration can be denied, its a precondition on excercising a civil right. As far as tracing a gun back to its owner, for most purchases thats been easy to acomplish for decades. You fill out a bunch of paperwork to buy a gun. Its practically already registered.

The topic is suposed to be why they have been restricted in recent years.
Not why or how they should be further restricted.

My opinion is gun rights have been restricted in recent years because its the easy way out & even when it doesn't work its an easy sell to create more by working on peoples sympathy. Instead admitting its not working people try all sorts of convoluted logic about why this or that one little thing will make it better. Registration is a good example. It will have no effect on anyone except people already obeying the law.
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Old 11-08-2008, 03:26 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,516,394 times
Reputation: 1573
Gun rights in the US have been restricted in recent years because Americans are finally catching on to the fact that every idiot can fire a gun and kill people.

Originally Posted by irspow
Quote:
That reason is that they wish to do something so horrible to the people that they know the people will react violently.
Right, so you're claimin' that the Dutch government is doing horrible things to their citizens?
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Old 11-08-2008, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 9,251,619 times
Reputation: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Gun rights in the US have been restricted in recent years because Americans are finally catching on to the fact that every idiot can fire a gun and kill people.

Originally Posted by irspow Right, so you're claimin' that the Dutch government is doing horrible things to their citizens?
all it would take is 1 event and since you have no guarantees in your constitution they could clamp down on you worse than the Nazi's
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Old 11-08-2008, 02:32 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,020,853 times
Reputation: 1335
I would just like to point out that nothing in the above post or its quotes was ever said by me even though my name appears. Just to be clear.

As to TrickyD, you kind of quoted me out of context pal. What you quoted was what I offered as the only logical reason for a government to do so. Not the only reason to do so. There is a difference, government especially in America, is rarely logical.
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Old 11-08-2008, 09:06 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,516,394 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Noahma
Quote:
all it would take is 1 event and since you have no guarantees in your constitution they could clamp down on you worse than the Nazi's
Which actually is irrelevant, because if you believe that a constitution can stop violence you really truly are naive.
Besidez, your constitution will not prevent a civil war.
This should be obvious since you already have had 1.
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Old 11-08-2008, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 9,251,619 times
Reputation: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Noahma Which actually is irrelevant, because if you believe that a constitution can stop violence you really truly are naive.
Besidez, your constitution will not prevent a civil war.
This should be obvious since you already have had 1.
your right, it does give provisions for us to remove the government if it impedes on our rights. Your constitution is a scam to make people feel like the government is looking at your best interest, nothing is guaranteed, and nothing not even security for your population is guaranteed, it is all under subject of your Parliament. If they feel to restrict you to your homes, to remove your right of speech, they are accountable to no one. I never said that our constitution can stop violence, it merely gives us the right to protect our life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness through a set of guaranteed rights.
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Old 11-08-2008, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 9,251,619 times
Reputation: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
I would just like to point out that nothing in the above post or its quotes was ever said by me even though my name appears. Just to be clear.

As to TrickyD, you kind of quoted me out of context pal. What you quoted was what I offered as the only logical reason for a government to do so. Not the only reason to do so. There is a difference, government especially in America, is rarely logical.
he/she does this quite frequently, see above.
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Old 11-09-2008, 12:47 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,516,394 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Noahma
Quote:
Your constitution is a scam to make people feel like the government is looking at your best interest, nothing is guaranteed, and nothing not even security for your population is guaranteed, it is all under subject of your Parliament.
Luckily I don't believe in 'pre-fabricated' political ideals.
Besidez gun rights are a sure way to ensure anarchy.
Do ya truly believe that your American society is not in a state of anarchy when (violent) crime happens so often that the people only notice the truly heinous ones?
But I guess that in such situations (where people are desensitized by an overexposure to violent crime) the need for safety is so great that people will turn a blind eye for the downside of owning a gun.
Like you said: nothing is guaranteed, so why insist that a gun will guarantee you safety (read: control)?

Besidez, your American army will easily defeat any armed civilian organisation, simply because the American soldier is indoctrinated to blindly follow the chain of command and because the army has government backing (read: better heavy weapons).
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Old 11-09-2008, 12:54 AM
 
16,438 posts, read 18,513,116 times
Reputation: 9490
When gun rights are taken away then all other rights go away automatically. Don't become enslaved.
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Old 11-09-2008, 12:56 AM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 9,251,619 times
Reputation: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Noahma Luckily I don't believe in 'pre-fabricated' political ideals.
Besidez gun rights are a sure way to ensure anarchy.
Do ya truly believe that your American society is not in a state of anarchy when (violent) crime happens so often that the people only notice the truly heinous ones?
But I guess that in such situations (where people are desensitized by an overexposure to violent crime) the need for safety is so great that people will turn a blind eye for the downside of owning a gun.
Like you said: nothing is guaranteed, so why insist that a gun will guarantee you safety (read: control)?

Besidez, your American army will easily defeat any armed civilian organisation, simply because the American soldier is indoctrinated to blindly follow the chain of command and because the army has government backing (read: better heavy weapons).
Because only one person can guarantee my safety and that person is me.

The insurgents in Afghanistan and Iraq have until now been able to hold our military at bay. Russian Military was defeated by civilians with guns in Afghanistan. The United States (at the time British Colonies) were able to defeat the strongest military force of its time. It does happen.

Our military takes an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States, true some may take the path of following the government, But from recent polls taken of our military, they are true and tried protectors of our constitution. If there were to be a revolution, I can bet a good majority would choose to uphold the Constitution and fight our government.

Wow, so your attempting to say that Switzerland is an anarchist society? Who would have thought that...
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