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Old 01-15-2009, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,092,476 times
Reputation: 948

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
I don't know, but I'll bet you whatever it is they have, I can safely walk down the sidewald to get to it! (sans bullet-proof vest)
I walk all the time in Washington DC and in 25 years have never been mugged, robbed, or assaulted. Neither have I frozen to death as you would walking the streets of Bismark.
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Old 01-15-2009, 05:02 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,417 posts, read 10,017,093 times
Reputation: 9153
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
That was a worry to a bunch of guys in the 18th century having just broken away from a monarchy. It isn't a worry today after two hundred years of peaceful changes in government. The idea that a segment of armed civilians could somehow take control of the American government is ridiculous and is treason punishable by death.
Wow. Just doctor the years and the country references and you sound quite like a member of the French royalty or ruling class in 1780's France...

Quite a tragic affair. But that's what happens when a government gets just a bit too arrogant for it's own good.

...Unless or course, the citizenry is effectively disarmed. Then you get tragedies like WW2 Germany (Hitler), or Pol Pot, or [insert your despot here].

Last edited by ChrisC; 01-15-2009 at 05:29 PM..
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Old 01-15-2009, 08:24 PM
 
Location: vagabond
2,631 posts, read 4,837,028 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Tin we know you never served and I did, so I suggest to you that you are living in LALA land. But it wouldn't be the military that was involved at all. It would be a police matter handled by federal and state authorities.

You should read the Constitution Tin.
i, however, have served in the military, and i can promise you that if someone were to try to take over the american government by any means other than those built in to the system that we have set up, there would be defection and civil war.

nice of you to continually resort to personal insults in order to try to make your point. again, it doesn't say much for the level of civilization of dc; any thirteen year old can get on his parents' computer and anonymously pick fights on the internet with complete strangers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
The idea that a segment of armed civilians could somehow take control of the American government is ridiculous and is treason punishable by death.
if someone overthrew our government and set up their own dictatorship, you're telling me that civilians shouldn't resist because it would be treason? we should worry more about the new, tyrannical laws of the dictator than we should the laws that we ourselves chose?

if that scenario were to happen here, i'd be happy to count myself a traitor, a terrorist, an insurgent, and whatever else they want to label me.

but, stycotl, it can't happen here in america!

sure, in the same way that the titanic was unsinkable, the earth is flat, a condom is foolproof, and alabama state was unconquerable (utes still got screwed out of the championship).

how confident do you think the persians were of their empire before it fell? the romans? the assyrians? how much do you think xerxes laughed when told that the insolent greeks, only a few thousand strong (that's right, the movie 300 didn't tell you about the athenians or the rest that combined forces with the spartans), were intent on stopping him and his millions at a tiny little battlefield that no one cared about? how much do you think the british scoffed when they were told that a ragtag bunch of american rebels were going to wage a war against them?

out of all of the great empires that have gone up in blood and flame, i would be very interested to see what percentage were done in from within, from internal infections, as opposed to external foes.

you care to make the argument that the usa is impervious to foreign or domestic tyranny, and will be forever and ever?

aaron out.
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Old 01-15-2009, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,092,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noahma View Post
The French civilians overthrew its government in a violent civil war that ended up with the king and queens head being removed from their body's.
What century was that?

Anything in Europe in the last 100 years?
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Old 01-15-2009, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 9,262,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
What century was that?

Anything in Europe in the last 100 years?
it happened just after our own fight for Independence, but is still a good example of of a government being overthrown by its peoples.
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Old 01-15-2009, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 9,262,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
What century was that?

Anything in Europe in the last 100 years?
within the last 100 years, yes Russian Revolution 1917. Unfortunatly they installed a more corrupatble government (Communist) in the place of the monarchy, but it was still a war to remove a corrupt government.
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:06 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,417 posts, read 10,017,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
What century was that?

Anything in Europe in the last 100 years?
Well, if we are just talking about revolutions and/or civil uprisings without regard to the outcome… there were these:



1903: The Ilinden Uprising of the Macedonians in the Ottoman Empire breaks out.
1905: The failed bourgeois-liberal revolution against Tsar Nicholas II in Russia.
1907: The Romanian Peasants' Revolt.
1908: The Young Turk Revolution: Young Turks force the autocratic ruler Abdul Hamid II to restore parliament and constitution in the Ottoman Empire. Public demonstration in the Sultanahmet district of Istanbul, during the Young Turk Revolution of 1908.
1910: The republican revolution in Portugal.
1915: The Armenian Revolt in city of Van against the Ottomans in Turkey resulted in the first genocide of 20th century, where a million and a half Armenians were sent on death marches.
1916: The Easter Rising in Dublin, Ireland during which the Irish Republic was proclaimed.
1916: The Central Asian Revolt started when the Russian Empire government ended its exemption of Muslims from military service.
1916–1918: The Arab Revolt with the aim of securing independence from the Ottoman Empire.
1916–1923: The Irish War of Independence, the period of nationalist rebellion, guerrilla warfare, political change and civil war which brought about the establishment of the independent nation, the Irish Free State.
1917: The French Army Mutinies.
1917: The February Revolution overthrows Tsar Nicholas II in Russia.
1917: The October Revolution in Russia: Bolshevik seizure of power in Russia and the establishment of the Soviet Union.
1918: The Finnish Civil War.
1918: The Christmas Uprising in Montenegro: Montenegrins (Zelenaši) rebelled against unification of Kingdom of Montenegro with Kingdom of Serbia.
1918: The German Revolution overthrows the Kaiser; establishment of the Weimar Republic.
1918–1919: The Greater Poland Uprising (1918-1919) Polish uprising against German authorities.
1918–1920: The Georgian-Ossetian conflict (1918-1920), the southern Ossetians revolted against Georgian rule.
1918–1921: The Ukrainian Revolution.
1918–1922: The Third Russian Revolution, a failed anarchist revolution against both Bolshevism and the White movement.
1918–1931: The Basmachi Revolt against Soviet Russia rule in Central Asia.
1919–1921: The Tambov Rebellion, one of the largest peasant rebellions against the Bolshevik regime during the Russian Civil War.
1919–1922: The Turkish War of Independence commanded by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk.
1919: The German Revolution.
1919: A revolution in Hungary, resulting in the short-lived Hungarian Soviet Republic.
1920: The Pitchfork Uprising was a peasant uprising against the Soviet policy of the war communism in what is today Tatarstan.
1921: The Kronstadt rebellion of Soviet sailors against the government of the early Russian SFSR.
1921–1923: The Yakut Revolt.
1922–1923: The Irish Civil War, between supporters of the Anglo-Irish Treaty and the government of the Irish Free State and more radical members of the original Irish Republican Army who opposed the treaty and the new government.
1923: The founding of the Republic of Turkey by overthrow of the Ottoman Empire and introduction of Atatürk's Reforms.
1923: The Klaipėda Revolt in the Memel territory that had been detached from Germany after World War I.
1925–1927: The Syrian Revolution, a revolt initiated by the Druze and led by Sultan al-Atrash against French Mandate.
1926: The National Revolution in Portugal initiated a period known as the National Dictatorship.
1927–1931: The Kurdish Rebellion against Turkey.
1934: In October, workers including radical socialists and anarchists stage coups in the Spanish regions of Asturias and Catalonia. The immediate cause was the entrance of a right-wing Catholic party into the government of the unstable Second Spanish Republic. The Asturian uprising was put down by General Francisco Franco.
1936: Polish insurgent at a Warsaw Uprising barricade.
1936: General Francisco Franco led a coup and started the Spanish Civil War, leading to the Spanish Revolution.
1937–1938: The Dersim Rebellion was the most important Kurdish rebellion in modern Turkey.
1937: The "Jornadas de Mayo", a workers' revolution in Catalonia.
1940–1944: The Insurgency in Chechnya.
1941: The June Uprising against the Soviet Union in Lithuania.
1941–1945: Yugoslav People's Liberation War against the Axis Powers in World War II.
1942: The destruction of the German garrison in Lenin.
1943: The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.
1943: The uprising at Treblinka extermination camp.
1943: The uprising at Sobibór extermination camp.
1944: The Warsaw Uprising was an armed struggle during the Second World War by the Polish Home Army (Armia Krajowa) to liberate Warsaw from German occupation and Nazi rule. It started on August 1, 1944.
1944: The Paris Uprising staged by the French Resistance against the German Paris garrison.
1944: The Slovak National Uprising against Nazi Germany.
1944: The uprising at Auschwitz extermination camp.
1944–1947: A Communist-friendly government was installed in Bulgaria following a coup d'état and the Soviet invasion.
1944: Following the liberation of Albania, the Communist Party of Albania under Enver Hoxha consolidated its control and declared the People's Republic of Albania in January 1946.
1944–1949: The Greek Civil War.
1944–1965: The Forest Brothers Rebellion in Baltic states against Soviet Union.
1945: The Prague uprising against German occupation during World War II.
1947–1952: In the Albanian Subversion, the intelligence services of the United States and Britain deployed exiled fascists, Nazis, and monarchists in a failed attempt to foment a counterrevolution in Communist-ruled Albania.
1953: The Vorkuta uprising was a major uprising of the Gulag inmates in Vorkuta in the summer of 1953. Like other camp uprisings it was bloodily quelled by the Red Army and the NKVD.
1954: The Kengir uprising in the Soviet prison labor camp Kengir.
1955–1960: The Guerrilla war against British colonial rule of Cyprus led by the EOKA (National Organisation of Cypriot Fighters).
1956–1962: The Border Campaign led by the Irish Republican Army against the British, along the border of the independent Republic of Ireland and British Northern Ireland.
1956: The Hungarian Revolution, a failed workers' and peasants' revolution against the Soviet-supported communist state in Hungary.
1968: The May 1968 revolt: students' and workers' revolt against the government of Charles de Gaulle in France.
1968: A failed attempt by leader Alexander Dubček to liberalise Czechoslovakia in defiance of the Soviet-supported communist state culminates in the Prague Spring.
1969–1998: The Troubles: the Provisional Irish Republican Army and other Republican Paramilitaries waged an armed campaign against British Security forces and Loyalist Paramilitaries in an attempt to bring about a United Ireland.
1974: The Carnation Revolution overthrows of right-wing dictatorship in Portugal.
1983: Overthrow of the ruling Conseil de Salut du peuple (CSP) by Marxist forces led by Thomas Sankara in Upper Volta, renamed Burkina Faso in the following year.
1985: Soviet and Afghanistan P.O.W. rose against their captors at Badaber base.
1989: The Singing Revolution, bloodless overthrow of communist rule in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.
1989: The bloodless Velvet Revolution overthrows the communist regime in Czechoslovakia.
1989: The Romanian Revolution violently overthrows the communist state in Romania.
1989: The Nagorno-Karabakh Armenian independence movement violently overthrows the Azeri government in Azerbaijan.
1990–1995: The Log Revolution in Croatia starts, triggering the Croatian War of Independence.
1992–1995: Bosnian War of Independence.
1994–1996: The First Chechen Rebellion against Russia.
1997–1999: The Kosovo Rebellion against Yugoslavia.
1999–present: The Second Chechen Rebellion against Russia.
2000: The bloodless Bulldozer Revolution, first of the four colour revolutions, overthrows Slobodan Milošević's régime in Yugoslavia.
2001: The 2001 Macedonia conflict.
2003: The Rose Revolution, second of the colour revolutions, displaces the president of Georgia, Eduard Shevardnadze, and calls new elections.
2004: After Viktor Yanukovych was declared the winner of a presidential election in the Ukraine, the Orange Revolution arose and installed Viktor Yushchenko as president, believing the election to have been fraudulent. This was the third colour revolution.




Looking through these, I see a number of popular uprisings that were successful--good or bad, right or wrong.
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:22 PM
 
Location: vagabond
2,631 posts, read 4,837,028 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
What century was that?

Anything in Europe in the last 100 years?
with all the forehead-slapping you're doing, maybe your memory for history has been affected.

what does the fact that tyranny happened far in the past have to do with today? are you suggesting that since it hasn't happened to anyone you know, in your lifetime, that it is therefore not a concern?

maybe the tyrants in dc are pretty sly and subtle; the rest of the world has some pretty blatant, undisguised tyrants though. newspapers, online articles, heck, even blogs could all be of use in your search for modern despots.
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:25 PM
 
Location: vagabond
2,631 posts, read 4,837,028 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Well, if we are just talking about revolutions and/or civil uprisings without regard to the outcome… there were these:

...big list...

Looking through these, I see a number of popular uprisings that were successful--good or bad, right or wrong.
oh, come on! is that all you could find? obviously tyranny and abuse of power has gone the way of the dinosaur here, and we no longer need worry about it. america is guaranteed its freedom and safety forever; no need to concern ourselves with caution, self defense, foreign relations, or anything else.
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:48 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,417 posts, read 10,017,093 times
Reputation: 9153
Quote:
Originally Posted by stycotl View Post
oh, come on! is that all you could find? obviously tyranny and abuse of power has gone the way of the dinosaur here, and we no longer need worry about it. america is guaranteed its freedom and safety forever; no need to concern ourselves with caution, self defense, foreign relations, or anything else.
I know, I know... but I tried. We were restricted to Europe though, so I had to delete the other 75%.
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