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Old 09-11-2009, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Europe
2,735 posts, read 2,083,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVlover View Post
If there wasnt so many loopholes in the U.S. Justice System, if the U.S. would expeditiously carry out the death sentence to Murderers, and if the U.S. would televise the punishment...murder would be more of a deterrant . As for Switzerland being of low crime rate compared to the U.S., im willing to bet that their citizens are not of the same crime / corruption mindset, per capita, and arent inundated with the constant barrage of violence handed out by an out of control Mass Media for entertainment. (?)
In Switzerland people have the same access to Mass Media like in the states. Also, why should they have a different mindset?
Imo violence usually starts when poverty, disorientation and bad education prevail.
Also, death penalty is against the Bible.
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:08 AM
 
1,310 posts, read 2,639,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pamky View Post
In Switzerland people have the same access to Mass Media like in the states. Also, why should they have a different mindset?
Imo violence usually starts when poverty, disorientation and bad education prevail.
Also, death penalty is against the Bible.
1. The mass media of a country is not the same as other countries ; just as cultures are different so are what the mass media endorses/encourages/enables.

2. The U.S.A. revels in violence , tough-guy personas are idolized, and the more gore in movies the better. America is a morals-suppressing place as statistics prove and as can be readily seen.

3. The Bible is FOR capital punishment . Can you show that it is not ?

Last edited by RVlover; 09-11-2009 at 08:09 AM.. Reason: added
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:14 AM
 
48,891 posts, read 39,370,650 times
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I don't view the DP as a deterrent but I like having it as an option.
Basically, a number of guys will plead guilty to life no parole instead of taking the DP.
Without the DP option, you have lengthy expensive trials and appeals processes for the lifers because they have nothing to lose and can roll the dice that they get lucky...no reason to plea.

I would ONLY use the DP where the person is unquestionably guilty via DNA and other hard evidence. Like if they catch some guy with women packed in barrels on his property, offer him life no parole IF he pleas guilty and helps close all the cases on his crimes. If not, he faces the DP.

This would solve several problems with the current system.
1) DP would be rarely given out and then only to people that frankly want it, McVeigh.
2) Lower overall costs...fewer trials and certainly fewer DP trials.
3) No accidental executions as the DP would ONLY be brought in ironclad cases and not where the evidence is just really strong.
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Europe
2,735 posts, read 2,083,121 times
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1. Everything that is shown in the States is eventually shown here. Switzerland has the same access to american mass media as americans. People watch the same movies, the same shows, have access to the same internet sites, read about the same stories and listen to american music.

2. Again, brutal american action movies are being watched and glorified in Europe as well. Usually, younger adolescent men are into that kind of thing. But that is relevant in many countries. Asian martial arts movies are pretty brutal as well.

3. First of all, one of the 10 commandments says : You shall not murder.
So I think the government cant play God and kill people, as well of course the murderers shouldnt kill people, but obviously they are not christians or real christians.
I know the Old Testament differs from the new one, but I can only take Jesus seriously and the main thing Jesus was known for was Christian love (or whatever the correct english expression is). I dont remember one story in which Jesus told people to kill somebody or that it is justified to kill people. You can prove me wrong, but I dont recall that. Jesus even forgave Judas.
Just to clarify, I am not religious, but I really think that Jesus was a great person.

And heres what the ( now dead) Pope had to say about Death Penalty http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in685522.shtml

Last edited by Pamky; 09-11-2009 at 09:05 AM..
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:05 PM
 
44,564 posts, read 43,091,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pamky View Post
1. Everything that is shown in the States is eventually shown here. Switzerland has the same access to american mass media as americans. People watch the same movies, the same shows, have access to the same internet sites, read about the same stories and listen to american music.

2. Again, brutal american action movies are being watched and glorified in Europe as well. Usually, younger adolescent men are into that kind of thing. But that is relevant in many countries. Asian martial arts movies are pretty brutal as well.

3. First of all, one of the 10 commandments says : You shall not murder.
So I think the government cant play God and kill people, as well of course the murderers shouldnt kill people, but obviously they are not christians or real christians.
I know the Old Testament differs from the new one, but I can only take Jesus seriously and the main thing Jesus was known for was Christian love (or whatever the correct english expression is). I dont remember one story in which Jesus told people to kill somebody or that it is justified to kill people. You can prove me wrong, but I dont recall that. Jesus even forgave Judas.
Just to clarify, I am not religious, but I really think that Jesus was a great person.

And heres what the ( now dead) Pope had to say about Death Penalty Pope's Influence On Death Penalty - CBS News

The last statement about the Pope's stance about the death penalty, well, as a Catholic, that is part of the reason I am against the death penalty. IMHO, the death penalty is just a sly form of revenge, not a crime deterrent or punishment, but revenge.
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:22 PM
 
Location: DFW - Coppell / Las Colinas
29,920 posts, read 34,517,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
The last statement about the Pope's stance about the death penalty, well, as a Catholic, that is part of the reason I am against the death penalty. IMHO, the death penalty is just a sly form of revenge, not a crime deterrent or punishment, but revenge.
Revenge & closure for the victims families - nothing wrong with that. I have a friend whose 9 year old daughter and 7 yo friend were savagely murdered by a guy who came in their house. I'll spare you the details which are gruesome but the guy was caught, confessed & executed in 2004 by Texas.

Anytime I question my beliefs on the DP I just think back about this beautiful little girl who would be around 26 today.
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:28 PM
 
1,310 posts, read 2,639,688 times
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1. Everything that is shown in the States is eventually shown here. Switzerland has the same access to american mass media as americans. People watch the same movies, the same shows, have access to the same internet sites, read about the same stories and listen to american music.

REPLY: Then why is the crime rate less, per capita, over there than here if that is true ?

2. Again, brutal american action movies are being watched and glorified in Europe as well. Usually, younger adolescent men are into that kind of thing. But that is relevant in many countries. Asian martial arts movies are pretty brutal as well.

REPLY: Then why is America , per capita, higher in crime than Europe or Asia ?

3. First of all, one of the 10 commandments says : You shall not murder.
So I think the government cant play God and kill people, as well of course the murderers shouldnt kill people, but obviously they are not christians or real christians.
I know the Old Testament differs from the new one, but I can only take Jesus seriously and the main thing Jesus was known for was Christian love (or whatever the correct english expression is). I dont remember one story in which Jesus told people to kill somebody or that it is justified to kill people. You can prove me wrong, but I dont recall that. Jesus even forgave Judas.

REPLY: Jesus preached Daily Christian Love but he was also Just ; Jesus whipped the Money-Changers out of the Temple for defiling it, he called highly religious Leaders 'a brood of vipers' thereby casting judgement on them, and he spoke openly about those who refused to get their sins forgiven , in him, that they would be banished to Hell where there would be great weeping and nashing of teeth (utter regret). These few examples show that Jesus taught love but with justice as well ; we would like to think of Jesus as the mild mannered, passive, loving person ...which he is...but, he is also Just . The Old Testament shows many instances of capital punishment such as a man physically harming a pregnant woman to the point where she looses her child to miscarriage...that the Offender should pay with his life, and, if you willfully murder another you should pay with your life ---- nothing less and nothing more aka : 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth' .

Just to clarify, I am not religious, but I really think that Jesus was a great person.

REPLY: It is true that Jesus Christ has influenced the world like no other person ever has. Its ok that your not religious because he spoke out agaisnt religion to the Religious Leaders of his time known as The Pharisees because it was legalistic and keeps people in enslavement to rituals, traditions, and man made doctrines that were added to Gods Word, The Bible. (Mark 7 and Matt. 15). Its not being religious that gets one to Heaven, its based solely on what Christ DID on the cross for the atonement of our many sins which can only be recieved by simply beleiving THAT is true , plus nothing added to it ; in fact if you do add anything to the finished work of Christ on the cross then you nullify what Christ did FOR you. If you ever desire to be completely forgiven of your sins and reconciled to God, it is free to all and is simple to recieve at any time : Admit you are a Sinner in need of forgiveness, Beleive that Christ paid the sin penalty you should have paid , and Confess Jesus as your personal Saviour and make him the Lord of your life. Then, allow him to change your life which will include love and service to God and others. Joining a good well balanced Evangelical Church that places top priority on the Bible so you can grow in your faith and love for God, as well as walk with Others who love God too, is essential. I hope that helps clarify.


And heres what the ( now dead) Pope had to say about Death Penalty http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in685522.shtml (broken link)

REPLY: It matters not what another human being says ; it only matters what God has instructed to mankind as found in The Bible. The Bible is the final court of arbitration on all matters . The Bible says God is loving and holy BUT Just, and that there are consequences to our willful Sin . Especially the total disregard of human life that he created.

Regards.

Last edited by RVlover; 09-11-2009 at 01:37 PM.. Reason: added
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Europe
2,735 posts, read 2,083,121 times
Reputation: 637
[quote=RVlover;10713291]

REPLY: Then why is the crime rate less, per capita, over there than here if that is true ?

REPLY: Then why is America , per capita, higher in crime than Europe or Asia ?

Well, you need to put 2 and 2 together and see that mass media and glorifycation of bad, evil role models is not the main reason for high crime rates. There is a correlation between poverty, bad education and disorientation AND crime. Obviously, Switzerland has fewer problems with poor, less educated people. I am not an expert on Switzerland, but I assume that it does support people to overcome poverty so that people will have a perspective. But to blame the mass media alone for violence is just wrong, as proven by my statement.

Reply to Jesus: When did Jesus say it was ok to murder people?
Justice is already made by all the laws your country has, but you are not God and you cant kill people.

I dont care about the old testament very much, and I dont care about religion. That doesnt mean I am an atheist, because I am not. I couldnt tell if there was a God or not. I dont think anyone can.

I have morals and I am a good person, but you will defintely not see me in a church. I have met religious people, that were the most self-rightious people I have ever met. I did meet Christians that were very nice, though. Always tried to "show me the way to their God" and were never successful .
Still nice people.
But honestly, I havent met a truly religious person that believes Death Penalty is the right answer, its just so against what Jesus did (even though you stated some examples that showed his "dark" side)
And Jesus life is the basis for Christianity and not the Old Testament.
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
15,194 posts, read 17,683,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rita Mordio View Post
Do you feel that the Death Penalty is an effective deterrent to crime?
Who cares? It's a punishment. I don't give a hoot if it's got any deterrent effect whatsoever.
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:51 PM
 
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i liken capital punishment to putting a rabid dog down.
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