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Old 11-05-2008, 01:42 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,021,576 times
Reputation: 1335

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You can spout the party line forever. It is now, and always will be, immoral to use government force to confiscate the wealth of ANY person for the sake of benefiting someone else.

"I cannot undertake to place my finger upon that article of the constitution which grants a right to congress to appropriate even one dollar of their constituents money on objects of benevolence or charity."
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Old 11-05-2008, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Does it matter?
117 posts, read 147,856 times
Reputation: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
You can spout the party line forever. It is now, and always will be, immoral to use government force to confiscate the wealth of ANY person for the sake of benefiting someone else.
Yeah, my mom used the best analogy. As a college student it really made me think:

Say you got an A in a class, whereas someone else who didn't show up as much, didn't put in as much effort, and rarely even spoke in class, got a C. Now, to be "fair" the teacher takes from your grade and gives to theirs, giving you both B's.

Please explain to me how this is fair?

Sure, there are some people who are born into wealth, that's part of being in the "lucky gene pool". Hell, I wasn't born into that pool, but if I was I STILL wouldn't want my money taken because that's something that SOMEONE in that family has worked to build up for their later generations. How dare you say how their money be spent, especially on people who DONT want to put in the effort to rise up in the ranks. That is THEIR choice, the people who become successful chose a different route then them, don't punish them.

And how DARE anyone say that the rich are "greedy" for wanting to keep their money. That is a terrible thing to say... that you think they should give you money because you are poor and they are rich, yet when they ask for a tax break, they're magically greedy now? Wow.

As far as I'm concerned, all the "rich" or "well-off" people I know give A LOT of their money away as is, seeing as most are religious or involved in some sort of organization (food kitchens, Christmas in October, etc).
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Aiken S.C
765 posts, read 1,680,876 times
Reputation: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by PreAristotle View Post
Yeah, my mom used the best analogy. As a college student it really made me think:

Say you got an A in a class, whereas someone else who didn't show up as much, didn't put in as much effort, and rarely even spoke in class, got a C. Now, to be "fair" the teacher takes from your grade and gives to theirs, giving you both B's.

Please explain to me how this is fair?

Sure, there are some people who are born into wealth, that's part of being in the "lucky gene pool". Hell, I wasn't born into that pool, but if I was I STILL wouldn't want my money taken because that's something that SOMEONE in that family has worked to build up for their later generations. How dare you say how their money be spent, especially on people who DONT want to put in the effort to rise up in the ranks. That is THEIR choice, the people who become successful chose a different route then them, don't punish them.

And how DARE anyone say that the rich are "greedy" for wanting to keep their money. That is a terrible thing to say... that you think they should give you money because you are poor and they are rich, yet when they ask for a tax break, they're magically greedy now? Wow.

As far as I'm concerned, all the "rich" or "well-off" people I know give A LOT of their money away as is, seeing as most are religious or involved in some sort of organization (food kitchens, Christmas in October, etc).
Read and understand .. i gave it you guys to understand.. it's gonna go this way and thats just the way it is..
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Does it matter?
117 posts, read 147,856 times
Reputation: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by elvislives View Post
Read and understand .. i gave it you guys to understand.. it's gonna go this way and thats just the way it is..
The great thing about being an American is you never have to stop fighting for what you believe. Just because Obama wants to do all of this, he has to remember he still needs the favour of the American public. Why do you think Bush, losing favour after entering Iraq, refused to invade any other country that posed a threat (N Korea, Iran, helping in the situation in Georgia, Sudan, etc)? He wouldn't have the support of the people and probably would have had to step down as Commander in Chief, seeing as your job is to uphold the wishes of the US populous.

I DON'T agree with his and I DON'T think Republicans, Independents, or Democrats who voted against him should give up just because he won and it's the "way it is". We are founded on a nation that was standing up for their rights against England, I don't think that is something that will ever change about America, we will stand up for what we believe is right.

Now the only problem against this is, the country is so divided right now that I believe this "standing up" is going to cause a rebellion of some sort I don't want to think it'll happen, but it's definitely foreseeable.
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Aiken S.C
765 posts, read 1,680,876 times
Reputation: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by PreAristotle View Post
The great thing about being an American is you never have to stop fighting for what you believe. Just because Obama wants to do all of this, he has to remember he still needs the favour of the American public. Why do you think Bush, losing favour after entering Iraq, refused to invade any other country that posed a threat (N Korea, Iran, helping in the situation in Georgia, Sudan, etc)? He wouldn't have the support of the people and probably would have had to step down as Commander in Chief, seeing as your job is to uphold the wishes of the US populous.

I DON'T agree with his and I DON'T think Republicans, Independents, or Democrats who voted against him should give up just because he won and it's the "way it is". We are founded on a nation that was standing up for their rights against England, I don't think that is something that will ever change about America, we will stand up for what we believe is right.

Now the only problem against this is, the country is so divided right now that I believe this "standing up" is going to cause a rebellion of some sort I don't want to think it'll happen, but it's definitely foreseeable.
If that were the truth Bill Clinton And George bush would have been gone. Now if we could hold an American Idol style system to get rid of polititions then something may happen but most of america is too lazy and passive aggresive to ever stand up for anything.
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Does it matter?
117 posts, read 147,856 times
Reputation: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by elvislives View Post
If that were the truth Bill Clinton And George bush would have been gone. Now if we could hold an American Idol style system to get rid of polititions then something may happen but most of america is too lazy and passive aggresive to ever stand up for anything.
Well it only takes one person to stand up Then many seem to follow... which is why the liberals become so successful. Conservatives are scared to give their input. I have a feeling if Obama fails, they are going to start sharing their thoughts with the government, though.
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Old 11-05-2008, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Aiken S.C
765 posts, read 1,680,876 times
Reputation: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by PreAristotle View Post
Well it only takes one person to stand up Then many seem to follow... which is why the liberals become so successful. Conservatives are scared to give their input. I have a feeling if Obama fails, they are going to start sharing their thoughts with the government, though.
The conservitive input is what has gotten us to the place we are today and it's not a good place at all.
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Old 11-05-2008, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,273,555 times
Reputation: 10915
Quote:
Originally Posted by PreAristotle View Post
Yeah, my mom used the best analogy. As a college student it really made me think:

Say you got an A in a class, whereas someone else who didn't show up as much, didn't put in as much effort, and rarely even spoke in class, got a C. Now, to be "fair" the teacher takes from your grade and gives to theirs, giving you both B's.

Please explain to me how this is fair?

Sure, there are some people who are born into wealth, that's part of being in the "lucky gene pool". Hell, I wasn't born into that pool, but if I was I STILL wouldn't want my money taken because that's something that SOMEONE in that family has worked to build up for their later generations. How dare you say how their money be spent, especially on people who DONT want to put in the effort to rise up in the ranks. That is THEIR choice, the people who become successful chose a different route then them, don't punish them.

And how DARE anyone say that the rich are "greedy" for wanting to keep their money. That is a terrible thing to say... that you think they should give you money because you are poor and they are rich, yet when they ask for a tax break, they're magically greedy now? Wow.

As far as I'm concerned, all the "rich" or "well-off" people I know give A LOT of their money away as is, seeing as most are religious or involved in some sort of organization (food kitchens, Christmas in October, etc).
I guess it would depend on whether or not I had to work for it. If it just came naturally to me--and it does--why would I care? I don't HAVE to have an "A" rating.
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Old 11-05-2008, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,366,957 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
I guess it would depend on whether or not I had to work for it. If it just came naturally to me--and it does--why would I care? I don't HAVE to have an "A" rating.
TKramar - I'm curious. Did you vote? I'm not asking for who (frankly that is meaningless to me). I'm just asking if you voted
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Old 11-05-2008, 05:32 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,321,196 times
Reputation: 2558
Its funny that in order to notice his tax cuts we need to look to the 90's. I paid more taxes then than I do now. So, is there really a cut or does it even out & become meaningless?
Would be better if he simply did away with the IRS & everybody paid say,,, 7% or maybe 10%. everybody, welfare recipients included. Never could understand why we punish people who actually work & reward those who dont twice, once with free money & again with no income tax.
If thats not enough to pay our debt then we start cutting congressional pay & benifits. If thats not enough we cut more Gov't expenses, as in pay & bennies. They did this, both Dem & Rep did it regardless of the propaganda.
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