U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-05-2008, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Mountains of middle TN
5,232 posts, read 13,564,840 times
Reputation: 6011

Advertisements

Itís taken me more than 11 years to get to the point Iím at now. And Iím still certainly not rich. Heck, I barely, if even, am at Ďmiddle classí standards financially. But Iíve worked hard and come far and Iíve done it on my own, without government hand outs. I didnít accept food stamps or welfare checks or public housing.

I started as a young single mother after finally calling my marriage quits when my alcoholic husband was arrested for molesting a 13 year old girl. That was the final straw, and I did what I could to get my children and myself as far from that situation as I could.

Iíd married young, had children young, and intended to be a stay at home mom until they all were school age. I certainly hadnít planned on the situation turning the way it had. But it did and I worked with what I had.

I was very fortunate to have a wonderful mother-in-law to help me with the childrenís care while I worked. With no real experience the best I could do was a clerk job, part time bringing in less than $10,000 a year. I did have to use the local clinic for my childrenís annual check ups and shots. But as I was able to work more hours, get small pay raises, etc., I began making co-payments toward their expenses.

Iím not saying it was easy. I had to make plenty sacrifices. I couldnít afford to rent a home in a nice neighborhood. Instead I bought a 1960s model single wide 2 bedroom trailer in the worst section of town. I hated where I lived, but my mortgage was less than $200 a month, and all I could afford. I drove $300 cars until they were no longer worth putting money into them to keep them on the road. I certainly couldnít afford payments for a vehicle. I didnít have cable TV. I didnít have a cell phone. Most definitely didnít have internet or a computer. Didnít even have long distance on my home phone. Meals were enough to fill us up, but there were seldom left-overs. My kids never went hungry but they didnít get steak and ribs either.

And after a couple years of working hard, proving myself as a dedicated, responsible employee, I was able to land a job as a civilian deputy for my local sheriffís office. The pay was more than double what I was making hourly, and full time. I finally had benefits for my children and didnít need to use a clinic. And I was able to move to a better place. I found a great deal on a foreclosed home that needed a good bit of work, but it was a real house, not a trailer, and it was in a better neighborhood and I could afford it.

I spent 4 years at the SO, working up to $52,000 a year by putting in 70 hours a week, raising 4 kids alone. My ex stopped paying child support. I eventually re-married. I left the SO eventually and went to banking, and then into the hospitality field. Thatís where I am now, in accounting for a major hotel chain. I was hired to be trained to take my bossí position as the Controller which would double my salary.

But now, with Obamaís new plan, if I get his job, between the pay for that and my husbandís social security, Iíll be taxed to death. Iíve worked hard to get where I am, and I never accepted government hand outs or had that entitlement attitude thatís so prevalent these days. And the fact that they think they can take what I worked so hard to acquire and hand it to some sleaze ball that wonít get off his couch because he thinks heís too good to be a fry cook at McDonaldís just burns me up. Iíd been all set to go to college and get my accounting and business management degrees, something Iíve always dreamed of. But now, why bother? So I can keep working hard and achieve something, make more money for the new government to take away to give to those they think deserve it, even though theyíve done nothing??

I did it the American way. I earned it. I worked hard. I had to prove myself in a field for 4 years that was largely dominated by men. And do it while raising 4 young kids. So why now do I get punished? Why do the liberal socialist Democrats think itís their right to take the money I worked so hard for? If I can do it, why canít Joe Blow get off the couch and do it too? Itís not like there arenít any jobs. I donít care that itís not what you want to do. Sometimes being a grown up is about doing what you have to do.

And what do you think the chances are that these liberals who think we should take from the Ďrichí and give to the Ďpoorí are filling out the EZ form on their taxes?? I mean if they think giving up their income in taxes is the right thing to do, stop itemizing on your taxes. Just tell the Ďgov what you made and let them take what they want. Oh, but then theyíd get taxed instead of us and thatís not how they want this to play, now is it?

Am I angry? Disappointed? Frustrated? Scared? Oh, you betchaÖ..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-05-2008, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Portsmouth Virginia
411 posts, read 1,144,888 times
Reputation: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrs1885 View Post
Itís taken me more than 11 years to get to the point Iím at now. And Iím still certainly not rich. Heck, I barely, if even, am at Ďmiddle classí standards financially. But Iíve worked hard and come far and Iíve done it on my own, without government hand outs. I didnít accept food stamps or welfare checks or public housing.

I started as a young single mother after finally calling my marriage quits when my alcoholic husband was arrested for molesting a 13 year old girl. That was the final straw, and I did what I could to get my children and myself as far from that situation as I could.

Iíd married young, had children young, and intended to be a stay at home mom until they all were school age. I certainly hadnít planned on the situation turning the way it had. But it did and I worked with what I had.

I was very fortunate to have a wonderful mother-in-law to help me with the childrenís care while I worked. With no real experience the best I could do was a clerk job, part time bringing in less than $10,000 a year. I did have to use the local clinic for my childrenís annual check ups and shots. But as I was able to work more hours, get small pay raises, etc., I began making co-payments toward their expenses.

Iím not saying it was easy. I had to make plenty sacrifices. I couldnít afford to rent a home in a nice neighborhood. Instead I bought a 1960s model single wide 2 bedroom trailer in the worst section of town. I hated where I lived, but my mortgage was less than $200 a month, and all I could afford. I drove $300 cars until they were no longer worth putting money into them to keep them on the road. I certainly couldnít afford payments for a vehicle. I didnít have cable TV. I didnít have a cell phone. Most definitely didnít have internet or a computer. Didnít even have long distance on my home phone. Meals were enough to fill us up, but there were seldom left-overs. My kids never went hungry but they didnít get steak and ribs either.

And after a couple years of working hard, proving myself as a dedicated, responsible employee, I was able to land a job as a civilian deputy for my local sheriffís office. The pay was more than double what I was making hourly, and full time. I finally had benefits for my children and didnít need to use a clinic. And I was able to move to a better place. I found a great deal on a foreclosed home that needed a good bit of work, but it was a real house, not a trailer, and it was in a better neighborhood and I could afford it.

I spent 4 years at the SO, working up to $52,000 a year by putting in 70 hours a week, raising 4 kids alone. My ex stopped paying child support. I eventually re-married. I left the SO eventually and went to banking, and then into the hospitality field. Thatís where I am now, in accounting for a major hotel chain. I was hired to be trained to take my bossí position as the Controller which would double my salary.

But now, with Obamaís new plan, if I get his job, between the pay for that and my husbandís social security, Iíll be taxed to death. Iíve worked hard to get where I am, and I never accepted government hand outs or had that entitlement attitude thatís so prevalent these days. And the fact that they think they can take what I worked so hard to acquire and hand it to some sleaze ball that wonít get off his couch because he thinks heís too good to be a fry cook at McDonaldís just burns me up. Iíd been all set to go to college and get my accounting and business management degrees, something Iíve always dreamed of. But now, why bother? So I can keep working hard and achieve something, make more money for the new government to take away to give to those they think deserve it, even though theyíve done nothing??

I did it the American way. I earned it. I worked hard. I had to prove myself in a field for 4 years that was largely dominated by men. And do it while raising 4 young kids. So why now do I get punished? Why do the liberal socialist Democrats think itís their right to take the money I worked so hard for? If I can do it, why canít Joe Blow get off the couch and do it too? Itís not like there arenít any jobs. I donít care that itís not what you want to do. Sometimes being a grown up is about doing what you have to do.

And what do you think the chances are that these liberals who think we should take from the Ďrichí and give to the Ďpoorí are filling out the EZ form on their taxes?? I mean if they think giving up their income in taxes is the right thing to do, stop itemizing on your taxes. Just tell the Ďgov what you made and let them take what they want. Oh, but then theyíd get taxed instead of us and thatís not how they want this to play, now is it?

Am I angry? Disappointed? Frustrated? Scared? Oh, you betchaÖ..
am I missing something? Double $52K = $104K....how would that affect you? You would get a better tax break under the Dem's plan....right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2008, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Mountains of middle TN
5,232 posts, read 13,564,840 times
Reputation: 6011
52k was about 5 years ago. We're closer to 100k now. So, safe right? Unless those numbers keep falling. Initially 250k, then 200k, then Biden starts talking 150k. There's a big moving target when it comes to what is middle class.

My point is, for those on that 200-250k line, or the 150-200k line, where's the incentive to work harder?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2008, 01:08 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,446,444 times
Reputation: 47456
the inevitable result of wars, debt, the inevitable result of debt, debt payments.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2008, 01:09 PM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,235,124 times
Reputation: 45820
Obama is going to be president for one simple reason. The GOP governed abominably (And I voted for McCain, BTW) in both the White House and in Congress. So the American people banished them from the political wilderness.

The interesting question now is how to the left the country will lurch. I'm thinking it will only go slightly left of center. Obama strikes me as a student of political history, and he saw how quickly Clinton's mandate in 1992 was erased by the 1994 mid-term elections--all because he tried to do way too much.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2008, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
5,120 posts, read 12,731,976 times
Reputation: 7221
Just you wait--those "magic" figures will come down and down...hiked taxes here and there...do NOT expect to bring home what you've been getting! There will be increased fees on all of our transactions, since the "big" companies we all do business with will be passing along their tax increases.
Just wait, and see.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2008, 01:10 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,076,846 times
Reputation: 17978
She mihgt get abetter tax break on income taxes short term but if he has investment or a IRA;401 etc any tax increase on the companies or their cost may eat into that badly. Because in the end that tax will come out of the profits which effects stock prices and gains.But there are ways to protect this money that while not making the gains in the past will keep it making money and alot less risk than the markets.If there are alot of expensive programs then they may pay for it for awhile but like all programs they will cost more than estimated and rise in the future.No where to get that except taxes and fees. We are already facing a crisis in the near future in social security;medicare and medicaid that is not being addressed. If he can pass programs like in the UK it will mean huge tax and fee increases for all income levels eventauly. Look at the taxes and fees in the UK.We will most likely see unemployemnt rise because people some people won't work when they can get things free. Look at the unemployment rate for those under 30 the last decades in UK and the cost of owning a home.Being a accountant I beleive she see things like this coming for the middle class and even lower miidle class. I do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2008, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Aiken S.C
765 posts, read 1,681,609 times
Reputation: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrs1885 View Post
Itís taken me more than 11 years to get to the point Iím at now. And Iím still certainly not rich. Heck, I barely, if even, am at Ďmiddle classí standards financially. But Iíve worked hard and come far and Iíve done it on my own, without government hand outs. I didnít accept food stamps or welfare checks or public housing.

I started as a young single mother after finally calling my marriage quits when my alcoholic husband was arrested for molesting a 13 year old girl. That was the final straw, and I did what I could to get my children and myself as far from that situation as I could.

Iíd married young, had children young, and intended to be a stay at home mom until they all were school age. I certainly hadnít planned on the situation turning the way it had. But it did and I worked with what I had.

I was very fortunate to have a wonderful mother-in-law to help me with the childrenís care while I worked. With no real experience the best I could do was a clerk job, part time bringing in less than $10,000 a year. I did have to use the local clinic for my childrenís annual check ups and shots. But as I was able to work more hours, get small pay raises, etc., I began making co-payments toward their expenses.

Iím not saying it was easy. I had to make plenty sacrifices. I couldnít afford to rent a home in a nice neighborhood. Instead I bought a 1960s model single wide 2 bedroom trailer in the worst section of town. I hated where I lived, but my mortgage was less than $200 a month, and all I could afford. I drove $300 cars until they were no longer worth putting money into them to keep them on the road. I certainly couldnít afford payments for a vehicle. I didnít have cable TV. I didnít have a cell phone. Most definitely didnít have internet or a computer. Didnít even have long distance on my home phone. Meals were enough to fill us up, but there were seldom left-overs. My kids never went hungry but they didnít get steak and ribs either.

And after a couple years of working hard, proving myself as a dedicated, responsible employee, I was able to land a job as a civilian deputy for my local sheriffís office. The pay was more than double what I was making hourly, and full time. I finally had benefits for my children and didnít need to use a clinic. And I was able to move to a better place. I found a great deal on a foreclosed home that needed a good bit of work, but it was a real house, not a trailer, and it was in a better neighborhood and I could afford it.

I spent 4 years at the SO, working up to $52,000 a year by putting in 70 hours a week, raising 4 kids alone. My ex stopped paying child support. I eventually re-married. I left the SO eventually and went to banking, and then into the hospitality field. Thatís where I am now, in accounting for a major hotel chain. I was hired to be trained to take my bossí position as the Controller which would double my salary.

But now, with Obamaís new plan, if I get his job, between the pay for that and my husbandís social security, Iíll be taxed to death. Iíve worked hard to get where I am, and I never accepted government hand outs or had that entitlement attitude thatís so prevalent these days. And the fact that they think they can take what I worked so hard to acquire and hand it to some sleaze ball that wonít get off his couch because he thinks heís too good to be a fry cook at McDonaldís just burns me up. Iíd been all set to go to college and get my accounting and business management degrees, something Iíve always dreamed of. But now, why bother? So I can keep working hard and achieve something, make more money for the new government to take away to give to those they think deserve it, even though theyíve done nothing??

I did it the American way. I earned it. I worked hard. I had to prove myself in a field for 4 years that was largely dominated by men. And do it while raising 4 young kids. So why now do I get punished? Why do the liberal socialist Democrats think itís their right to take the money I worked so hard for? If I can do it, why canít Joe Blow get off the couch and do it too? Itís not like there arenít any jobs. I donít care that itís not what you want to do. Sometimes being a grown up is about doing what you have to do.

And what do you think the chances are that these liberals who think we should take from the Ďrichí and give to the Ďpoorí are filling out the EZ form on their taxes?? I mean if they think giving up their income in taxes is the right thing to do, stop itemizing on your taxes. Just tell the Ďgov what you made and let them take what they want. Oh, but then theyíd get taxed instead of us and thatís not how they want this to play, now is it?

Am I angry? Disappointed? Frustrated? Scared? Oh, you betchaÖ..
Have you bothered to read the tax plan? Have you bothered to listen?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2008, 01:14 PM
 
451 posts, read 1,097,198 times
Reputation: 215
1st off. I congratulate you for your effort enduring what you have and making it to the point where you are at. But by your own post, you admit to using social services. Now that you don't have to, you feel you shouldn't be taxed a little more to help out people who are in the same boat you were on some time ago. My mother used all of them in the book and I think about this all the time I have to pay taxes. I don't want to pay them, but I have used the services they provided from food stamps, to health care, to housing assistance. My real beef is the management of the money, I think they could do more with what they take in, but since you and me have gained from them even if it was a small way for you, you shouldn't complain about paying a little more now that you can. You would have to really look at your numbers to see how much more it is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2008, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Aiken S.C
765 posts, read 1,681,609 times
Reputation: 388
Obama’s Comprehensive Tax Policy Plan for America will:
  • Cut taxes for 95 percent of workers and their families with a tax cut of $500 for workers or $1,000 for working couples.
  • Provide generous tax cuts for low- and middle-income seniors, homeowners, the uninsured, and families sending a child to college or looking to save and accumulate wealth.
  • Eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses, cut corporate taxes for firms that invest and create jobs in the United States, and provide tax credits to reduce the cost of healthcare and to reward investments in innovation.
  • Dramatically simplify taxes by consolidating existing tax credits, eliminating the need for millions of senior citizens to file tax forms, and enabling as many as 40 million middle-class Americans to do their own taxes in less than five minutes without an accountant.
Under the Obama Plan:
  • Middle class families will see their taxes cut – and no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase. The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under the Obama plan, and will pay tax rates that are 20% lower than they faced under President Reagan. According to the Tax Policy Center, the Obama plan provides three times as much tax relief for middle class families as the McCain plan.
  • Families making more than $250,000 will pay either the same or lower tax rates than they paid in the 1990s. Obama will ask the wealthiest 2% of families to give back a portion of the tax cuts they have received over the past eight years to ensure we are restoring fairness and returning to fiscal responsibility. But no family will pay higher tax rates than they would have paid in the 1990s. In fact, dividend rates would be 39 percent lower than what President Bush proposed in his 2001 tax cut.
  • Obama’s plan will cut taxes overall, reducing revenues to below the levels that prevailed under Ronald Reagan (less than 18.2 percent of GDP). The Obama tax plan is a net tax cut – his tax relief for middle class families is larger than the revenue raised by his tax changes for families over $250,000. Coupled with his commitment to cut unnecessary spending, Obama will pay for this tax relief while bringing down the budget deficit.

Impact of the Obama Tax Plan

[CENTER]WHO TAX CUT Married Couple Making $75,000 with two children, one of whom is in college $3,700
[includes $1,000 Making Work Pay; $500 universal mortgage credit; and $4,000 college credit net of current college credits] Married Couple making $90,000$1,000 Single Parent making $40,000 with two young children and childcare expenses.$2,100
[includes $500 making work pay; $500 universal mortgage credit, and $1,100 from Obama expansion of the child care tax credit] 70-Year Old Widow Making $35,000$1,900 [/CENTER]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top