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Old 11-14-2008, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
2,544 posts, read 3,452,125 times
Reputation: 1931

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As I read through various forums, and in daily observation, I am shocked to see the number of people who are willing to give up freedoms in trade for the feeling of safety. This is often in connection with the "if it saves one life..." philsophy. I believe this is a growing phenomenon, and to be honest, it worries me. I'm not talking about minor issues, these are basic freedoms and hard earned rights that people seem perfectly willing to discard so that they can have the illusion of being safe.

Our freedom was won at the price of many lives, and, once lost, there is hell to pay to win them back. In my view, we are coming to a crossroads, and as a culture we Americans need to realize the choice that lay before us.

It is this: SAFE OR FREE? YOU CANNOT HAVE BOTH.

Any thoughts?
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Waco, TX
977 posts, read 1,573,594 times
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I am curious what freedoms you think we have given up in exchange for "safety." Without examples, it is difficult to comment one way or the other, because I don't feel I have given up any freedoms.
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
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Give me liberty, or give me death!
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:22 PM
 
3,566 posts, read 4,491,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanman13 View Post
As I read through various forums, and in daily observation, I am shocked to see the number of people who are willing to give up freedoms in trade for the feeling of safety. This is often in connection with the "if it saves one life..." philsophy. I believe this is a growing phenomenon, and to be honest, it worries me. I'm not talking about minor issues, these are basic freedoms and hard earned rights that people seem perfectly willing to discard so that they can have the illusion of being safe.

Our freedom was won at the price of many lives, and, once lost, there is hell to pay to win them back. In my view, we are coming to a crossroads, and as a culture we Americans need to realize the choice that lay before us.

It is this: SAFE OR FREE? YOU CANNOT HAVE BOTH.

Any thoughts?
Free.

When I hear people speak the line that you mentioned, I find that the intentions are well meaning but that they are not aware of what is at stake.

I think that this is a crossroads that we have come to before and we will see it again. What worries me is that people (not all) have a tendency to view things with emotion. There are items that need to be investigated without emotion.

One of my all time favorite statements that blows my mind everytime I hear it is, "If you didn't do anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about."
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:23 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,048,183 times
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I haven't felt a difference.Do evryhting I always have done. Airports are a hassle but what else van they do.I am really more mad at the muslim radicals that cause this.
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
2,544 posts, read 3,452,125 times
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@Cyborg13: I think a lot of people don't see it happening. It's done very incrementally. An imperfect example (because it sunsetted:thank goodness) was the so-called Patriot Act. This is the Act that gave rise to the wide spread government wiretapping that is still going on. Another example is gun control. I hesitate to mention that first, because this really isn't a gun control thread. I see freedom of speech being curtailed under various guises such as "fairness doctrine" or political correctness. I also see it in parent's rights issues, i.e. spanking of children. However you see these individual issues is fine, I'm thinking more broadly.

In my mind it is a widespread and insidious occurence. I didn't want to focus on just one issue, but more of a general philosophic approach.
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
2,544 posts, read 3,452,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
I haven't felt a difference.Do evryhting I always have done. Airports are a hassle but what else van they do.I am really more mad at the muslim radicals that cause this.
I believe that is the core purpose of the Muslim radicals. I should expand that statement to include all religious radicals. I do not mean the average religious person, but the extremists and sectarians that seem to be an unfortunate side-effect of any religion.
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:38 PM
 
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A good past one, the Japanese American Internment.
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
2,544 posts, read 3,452,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post
A good past one, the Japanese American Internment.
An excellent example, perhaps even more insidious for being the sort that happenned to "other people," as if it couldn't happen to the rest of us.

Like you, Pandamonium, I fear this line:
Quote:
"If you didn't do anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about."
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:19 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,237,161 times
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"If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money that it values more, it will lose that, too." -- Somerset Maugham


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin,
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