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Old 02-24-2009, 08:15 PM
 
19,081 posts, read 21,254,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Public_Newsense View Post
I wonder the same thing. For instance, re Obama's comment about his White grandmother, "...typical White person" what if McCain had said, "....typical Black person", what do you suppose would have happened? It didn't matter that Obama was speaking of his grandmother, that's not the point. It just shows a self-loathing, imo, because he himself is half White.
McCain would have been received poorly because the situations surrounding race relations then and now are totally different. It's a kin to comparing basket weaving and snow boarding...a pointless comparison.

Ime, a white older woman who raised back in the day, without significant diversity, would be afraid if she was walking down the street alone or with a child and came across a large black man. It reminded me of my mother and for many it's pretty typical for that age bracket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HillScoggin View Post
Reverse discrimination is not only condoned but pushed in our society. Affirmative Action reinforced the idea that it was acceptable. When you take a more qualified person and do not promote them because you have to promote a less qualified minority and the government mandates it then it becomes accepted to most people.
Do you have any examples with links? I've tried to find such info myself but always come up short. Thanks in advance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf View Post
Maybe it's because people, like you, claim reverse racism, but never provide concrete and documented examples of "reverse racism" that were as vicious as the well documented, true-blue, accept no substitutes, original formula racism.
I would like to see some real life examples as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueWillowPlate View Post
Agreed, and I share your skepticism of politicians, as well as your cautious optimism.

Agreed again.

We already *have* WET. Until not so long ago, all TV was by default White Television--
While it's sad, thank you for pointing out the obvious. Perhaps as obvious as the nose on our faces but we just don't see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryB View Post
I live in an area that is predominantly Latino. Due to this the work crews generally speak Spanish among themselves and to most of their customers. This isn't a problem unless you don't speak Spanish. I have a 16 year old son who wouldn't have much of a chance even getting a job at Burger King. As a matter of fact, there are few lower level jobs available for anyone who doesn't speak Spanish. Latino's hire Latino's.

I don't personally care, but I do realize if I want my kid to work, I need to move to another part of town which I plan to do within the next couple of months. It will cost me quite a bit of money at a time when I really don't want to have to spend it.

However, I have to accept this as the reality of a white family who mistakenly moved into a Latino area. If it were the other way around....it would be considered racism. As it is...it is reverse racism but no one cares.
I'm sorry, how is this reverse racism? At my job, 1/3 of folk speak manderin, a 1/3 speak (whatever Indian language is called). I don't speak either but I don't perceive it as racism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker View Post
Not alot to adress.
Racism as it exists to day in the US is virtually nonexistant beyond personal feelings.
It is the consequences of racism that we are contending with now...disparity. This will not and cannot be ignored.

 
Old 02-24-2009, 08:16 PM
 
3,651 posts, read 8,132,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
Where are ALL of these BLACKS who blame ALL WHITES for personal shortcomings? The problem exists with the statement itself.

The statement suggests someone who is not familar with ALL of the differing socioeconomic strata that exists within the Black community. Quite ironic that one would take from this gross exaggeration about how we (Black people) feel towards Whites in America.

Instead of painting our community with a broad brush of hopelessness, despair and hatred of Whites; why not be objective and make an effort to get a larger understanding of the varying opinions and outlooks which exist within our community.

Or are you the type of person who thinks that you "know" us and how we think and feel based on what you see on the evening news? Our community is much more diverse than that. I come from a very long line of educated, professional, business-owning Black people.

Someone like you would never think to ask me about my historical persceptive. My great-great-great grandfather was a progressive, land-owning, free Black man in the 1860s in Louisiana. He was murdered by the Klan for being too prosperous; the remaining family had to flee to Texas. My family made sure that each generation remembered what happened but we were not taught to hate White people.

The average Black person in America is too busy trying to earn a living, raise their families and making a better life for themselves to walk around hating and blaming White people. We don't spend our days thinking about how White folks have "done us wrong".
Let's see: you rip on someone for a gross exaggeration about blacks w/o considering "all the differing socioeconomic strata".......then presume to know what "the average black person in America" thinks. uh OK

But to answer your original question, cmon over to the east coast. Plenty to spare here. No it's not "all" or even "most," of course.....but it's not exactly rare either. I saw it on a regular basis before I moved to another state (jury is out here) and hear about it up and down the seaboard from people I know.

And no they aren't KKK members.
 
Old 02-24-2009, 08:27 PM
 
1,525 posts, read 3,301,412 times
Reputation: 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicwriter View Post
i feel the same way. Maybe if these people would get up off their behind and actually do something other than complain, they would see that they are not as held down as they want to believe.

Of course making excuses is easier than making an effort
Didn't Obama just prove this?

If you don't:

1) Speak in ebonics
2) Act like you are the second coming of MLK or Malcom X
3) Present yourself as a thug

and you do:

1) Get and education
2) Apply that education

Then you can go far.

Of course he wasn't raised in the typical African American household nor does his African roots run through American slavery.

And I do have my suspicions that there's some gaming that went on in typical Harvard Lawyer fashion. I.e. I tend to thing the whole Rev. Wright thing was concocted from the start as a way to let Obama distance himself from radical appearing blacks in order to bring in some white votes, if not essentially split the white vote.

But point still stands. Don't act like ghetto thugs (unless you're a rapper of course, LOL!) and you might get a little further.

Yes, being black *does* IMHO make it harder, because you are fighting the fact that most stats related to the black community at large *are* more damning than say for the Asian community, but Obama et. al. have demonstrated it can be done.
 
Old 02-24-2009, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Back in the gym...Yo Adrian!
9,371 posts, read 17,538,614 times
Reputation: 18348
I think we're all a little racist to some degree. Some call it ethnic pride, but to a certain extent we each have passing thoughts in our minds that can easily be interpreted as racist. You get cut off in traffic and like most of us you get pissed, but if it's done by someone of another race, in your head you got a few choice reservations. You see a crime committed on the news or internet and it's a group of thugs from another race beating on someone of your race, you feel a certain degree of resentment towards that race. You go to a sporting event, perhaps a boxing match, if it's two guys of different race in the ring, most fans are rooting for their own race. A black women working at the DMV snaps her gum and gives you attitude, an Asian driver cuts you off, a white security guard at the store checks your bags on the way out but not other whites, a Puerto Rican throws his sandwich wrapper in the street rather than the trash can right in front of him...and on it goes, you curl your toes and think to yourself..."It figures". You know that many stereotypes are true, that's how they got to be stereotypes. Or is it that we tend to remember and associate the bad behavior from a race more than the good, and then we associate that bad example with all people of that race?

You see Minister Farrakhan preaching his hatred of the white man, the KKK burning crosses, MS-13 terrorizes the country, gangs of all races destroying our schools, and you can't help but think...oh those damn _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (fill in the blanks) they're at it again.

It's normal. But somewhere inside of you the voice of reason wins over (hopefully) and you talk yourself down from the ledge and realize that good and bad come in all colors, and you try to convince yourself that everyone is stuggling with these feelings and hopefully the good in us prevails. So I guess the term "reverse-racism" shouldn't really exist...it's all racism to some degree, regardless of who is on the receiving end.
 
Old 02-24-2009, 08:29 PM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
17,414 posts, read 18,344,744 times
Reputation: 18594
Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2000 View Post
Let's see: you rip on someone for a gross exaggeration about blacks w/o considering "all the differing socioeconomic strata".......then presume to know what "the average black person in America" thinks. uh OK

But to answer your original question, cmon over to the east coast. Plenty to spare here. No it's not "all" or even "most," of course.....but it's not exactly rare either. I saw it on a regular basis before I moved to another state (jury is out here) and hear about it up and down the seaboard from people I know.

And no they aren't KKK members.
Lets start with this:

1) I AM the average Black person - have been ALL of MY life

2) I was raised by and grew up with Black people so I know what we do and do not talk about.

3) Someone who is NOT a Black person can not tell me what we as a people think, feel or believe as a group. Further, someone who is NOT Black is NOT an expert on our community

4) I was born and raised in Los Angeles, I have family in the South, Southwest, Midwest and on the East Coast. The views of Blacks will vary based on their socioeconomic experiences

5) You can't deal with a few "street people" who are Black and profess to "know" how "we" think as a whole.

6) I would never state that all Whites are bigots and are Klan members because I ran into one or two(or even more) who expressed those sentiments

7) Broaden your interactions with Black people of differing levels. You are limited by your personal interactions which come across as just plain limited.
 
Old 02-24-2009, 08:29 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,292,341 times
Reputation: 17985
Remember when a presidental candidate said the words word you people and was immediately branded a racist. The same people heard Rev Wright and said he was not. That is the politics of race in this country.Bill Clinton and hillary went from called the first black president to racist very quickly.
 
Old 02-24-2009, 08:35 PM
 
1,525 posts, read 3,301,412 times
Reputation: 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by expgc View Post
Because we have given up the right to do so. Whites are so guilt ridden by real and perceived wrongs of the past that they have become afraid to criticize because you will be termed a racist. And everyone knows that being called a racist is the absolute worse thing you can be labeled these days.
I'd say the "percieved wrongs of the past" were in fact really wrongs.

However, that being said, trying to get working class whites who are stuggling as much as anyone else to buy into say, reparations isn't going to work. What they see is Affirmative Action, etc. helping someone besides themselves, and of course they resent it.

The wrongs of the past were par for the course in those eras, simple as that. We gave up on slavery in 1865, and Civil rights happened in the 60's.

Like it or not, it may take *generations* for things to change. It takes time and distance for such things to change.

Geez, look at the Israel/Palistine thing if you need a yardstick of how much further ahead things are here.
 
Old 02-24-2009, 08:47 PM
 
1,525 posts, read 3,301,412 times
Reputation: 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
Where are ALL of these BLACKS who blame ALL WHITES for personal shortcomings? The problem exists with the statement itself.

The statement suggests someone who is not familar with ALL of the differing socioeconomic strata that exists within the Black community. Quite ironic that one would take from this gross exaggeration about how we (Black people) feel towards Whites in America.

Instead of painting our community with a broad brush of hopelessness, despair and hatred of Whites; why not be objective and make an effort to get a larger understanding of the varying opinions and outlooks which exist within our community.

Or are you the type of person who thinks that you "know" us and how we think and feel based on what you see on the evening news? Our community is much more diverse than that. I come from a very long line of educated, professional, business-owning Black people.

Someone like you would never think to ask me about my historical persceptive. My great-great-great grandfather was a progressive, land-owning, free Black man in the 1860s in Louisiana. He was murdered by the Klan for being too prosperous; the remaining family had to flee to Texas. My family made sure that each generation remembered what happened but we were not taught to hate White people.

The average Black person in America is too busy trying to earn a living, raise their families and making a better life for themselves to walk around hating and blaming White people. We don't spend our days thinking about how White folks have "done us wrong".
Problem is this. Many *televised* blacks come across at the blacks you mention. Rev Wright, Rappers, etc. The radical black element is the one that many whites associate with "all these blacks". The general belief is that this attitude is lurking in all blacks.

Things like riots tend to confirm it in the general conciousness.

I'll be honest, as a whitey. When dealing with a typical ebonics speaking black you feel like you have the same communication gap as talking to an Indian Call Center... Then add the aggressive look of urban blacks and their generally greater size an strength, and just plain old african facial traits... and the impression whites get is that they are dealing with a dangerous person that might go criminally nuts on them at any second.

Unfortunately, that's how black physical traits come across to many whites. And people tend to believe thier eyes and feelings on it.

Same sort of feeling a black person might get when dealing with an Appalachian white. It's that feeling that you might say something you think is perfectly nice and OK and all of a sudden they go nuts and pull out a gun... and you're like, "What'd I say? What'd I say?"
 
Old 02-24-2009, 09:16 PM
 
3,651 posts, read 8,132,332 times
Reputation: 2748
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
1) I AM the average Black person - have been ALL of MY life
uh, no. You are "an" average black person, AT MOST. PS and oh by the way, once again you do the same thing you just ripped on someone for doing (generalizing/oversimplifying, even stereotyping). ie what is "the average black person?" I thought there were all these complex socioeconomic etc etc.

Quote:
2) I was raised by and grew up with Black people so I know what we do and do not talk about.
Correction: you know what the small group of people you grew up with did/didn't talk about. That's not quite all of America.

Quote:
3) Someone who is NOT a Black person can not tell me what we as a people think, feel or believe as a group.
Well they can, but that doesn't mean you're required to listen.

Quote:
Further, someone who is NOT Black is NOT an expert on our community
Gee no racists sentiments there The defense rests.

Quote:
4) I was born and raised in Los Angeles, I have family in the South, Southwest, Midwest and on the East Coast. The views of Blacks will vary based on their socioeconomic experiences
No argument there.

Quote:
5) You can't deal with a few "street people" who are Black and profess to "know" how "we" think as a whole.
None there either.

Quote:
6) I would never state that all Whites are bigots and are Klan members because I ran into one or two(or even more) who expressed those sentiments
Cool. I wouldn't have thought so. Really most people aren't stupid enough (I think) to judge a huge group of people based on a few.

Quote:
7) Broaden your interactions with Black people of differing levels. You are limited by your personal interactions which come across as just plain limited.
Wow it's amazing how you can reach through the internet connection somehow and know what interactions I've had and how "limited" they have been.



Frankly I suspect said interactions are at least as broad as yours, if not more so.
 
Old 02-25-2009, 12:42 AM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
17,414 posts, read 18,344,744 times
Reputation: 18594
Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2000 View Post
uh, no. You are "an" average black person, AT MOST. PS and oh by the way, once again you do the same thing you just ripped on someone for doing (generalizing/oversimplifying, even stereotyping). ie what is "the average black person?" I thought there were all these complex socioeconomic etc etc.

Correction: you know what the small group of people you grew up with did/didn't talk about. That's not quite all of America.

Well they can, but that doesn't mean you're required to listen.

Gee no racists sentiments there The defense rests.

No argument there.

None there either.

Cool. I wouldn't have thought so. Really most people aren't stupid enough (I think) to judge a huge group of people based on a few.



Wow it's amazing how you can reach through the internet connection somehow and know what interactions I've had and how "limited" they have been.



Frankly I suspect said interactions are at least as broad as yours, if not more so.
By attempting to counter my points, you have shown that your expressed views(all Blacks blame Whites for....) are unfounded and tinged with solely your limited interactions. In my three decades as a Black woman, I think I have a better grasp on what we discuss and focus upon.

Why not just admit that your views are formed strictly by your interactions with only a certain class of Black people and leave it at that?

These outcries of reverse racism are based in a personal sense of inferiority and a sense of White entitlement. The question becomes: How did that n----r get that job, degree, house, promotion, car, etc, etc. I deserve it. I should have more than "them".

I have worked very hard for what I have and my family and I have made great sacrifices to accomplish our goals. The Black middle-class and higher truly do not blame Whites when we don't get something that we desire, we just work harder and aim higher.

Lastly, I realize that for some who only know (or think they know) Blacks want to hold onto the "Good Times" and "Sanford & Son" stereotype of Black America but the values and experiences of "The Cosby Show" is where a lot more of us come from.

Many people attempt to maintain a caste system (with Blacks on the bottom) to make themselves feel superior to another group. As a Black person, I have experienced this numerous times. However, I have never cried racism (even when it would have been a valid claim for me to do so) I just strived for better (as my family has taught) and I usually come out ahead. I don't blame White people when I don't get what I want, I just push forward. Sorry if that ruins your theory about how all (or most) Black people think.
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