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Old 11-20-2008, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Southwest Desert
4,166 posts, read 5,174,193 times
Reputation: 3514

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For starters, I don't understand why some people seem to have so much hate, contempt and disgust when it comes to overweight people.

I'm thin....I've been relatively thin for about 52 years now. (Haven't been "chubby" since I was a kid.)

I don't feel that I am "pure" and "holy" or "better" or "above" other people just because I happen to be thin. In other words, I don't use my "size" as a "status symbol"....or as proof that I am a "saint!"

To be honest, I think that my metabolism must have changed through the years, and this is why I am thin. Same goes for my husband. He can eat "what he wants" and never gains any weight. But, this isn't the case for a lot of people. And, I don't take "credit" for being thin. This is just how things turned out, and that's all.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I was anorexic for 9 years when I was younger. (Due to "pressure" from society to be "thin.") I count my lucky stars everyday that I didn't end up dead back then.

Targeting overweight people and heaping "shame" and "blame" on them can be dangerous. Some people might become anorexic or bullemic and "go too far." (And end up dead someday.)

Other people might be tempted to commit suicide because they feel so "bad" about themselves.

A person may act like their weight doesn't bother them when others nag or lecture them in order to "save face." But deep down inside, they may feel like a "horrible disgrace" who just doesn't deserve to live. There is no telling how someone "really feels."

When we get on our "high horse" and sit in judgment of overweight people and call them mean names (like "lazy," "gross," etc.)....there is no telling what could happen.

It's one thing to try to find out why we have problems in our country. It's good to care, and good to be curious! But, we need to "play scientist" and look at all possible sides and "causes" to the problems in totally objective...and non-emotional ways. (The way that scientists do!!)

We're not being sane or rational or objective when we project our prejudices onto other people in mean and hateful and hurtful ways. People who "get off" on doing this obviously have problems of their own. (Problems that they just don't want to face.)

The "busy-bodies" of the world spend too much times telling others how to live their lives, and don't spend enough time "working on themselves" and their own issues. This is how I feel anyway....
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:18 PM
 
1,884 posts, read 4,015,646 times
Reputation: 2659
CArizona, the debate is "who is to blame". People are overweight, not you of course.....you told us that in the first 4 paragraphs.

The problem/question is why(as I see it). Some blame additives, some f.food, and some blame govt subsidies. Then some even blame the FDA! It's their opinion, and we all know opinions are like a-holes.......everybody elses' stinks.

Some people are fat, it happens.......but what the op wants to know is why or who is to blame. There can be all kinds of reasons, most are listed in the previous threads. Your just say'n it's "not nice", and that doesn't address the question. I do agree w/you, yet I also disagree w/you.

My opinion, and I think it smells good.(this is not aimed at you CA, but everyone, ok?)
1.) Who cares if your neighbor is fat. You say your ins. prem.'s go up. How much? Is it really that significant?
2.) Who says that "fat guy/gal" is not happy? Who are we to say if they are happy or not?

Ok, I'm getting off the subject also, sorry.

A person, skinny or fat, must have self control. If you can't stop eating "Whoppers", then don't go to BK. It is not anyones fault but your own if your too fat, too skinny, too drunk, too doped up, too lazy, too sneezy, too dopey, too grumpy, too........I can't remember all their names.

We must quit blame'n everyone else for our mistakes. So what if you ate too much for 5 yrs........don't eat as much for the next 10.

Another "debate" would be......Why is it so hard to take responsibility for your own actions?

The best thing is that people are different, and if they weren't.....dang it would be boring.

"It takes a village....." ........oh dear God, I must puke now
gotta go
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Southwest Desert
4,166 posts, read 5,174,193 times
Reputation: 3514
Capt. Cave Man:

Thanks for writing. Ok, I get it....

It seems like some people view it as a "self-control issue." And they view overweight people as having "no self-control." Does this sound right?

Whose "control" and "mandates" are we suppose to "follow?" Our parents? Our neighbors? Our parish priest? Scientists who "flip-flop" and "change their tunes" a lot? (When new studies and reports come out that contradict what they said in the past!)

Who gets to decide how much is "too much" or "too little" for us to eat? Isn't this suppose to be a "free country?" Should we let someone else "decide for us?" Or, don't we have the right to make our own decisions? Are we all suppose to walk around like "clones" of each other??

Decades ago, it was fashionable to be "heavier"....During my Grandparents & Parents' generation, it was a disgrace to be "thin." Why? Because back then, everyone viewed "thin people" as "poor." (As people who didn't have enough money to buy food!!) So naturally, no one wanted to "be thin!!"

Then, we went thru the "Twiggy" era where "thin" was suddenly "in"...and "big" became outdated and obsolete. (Unfortunately, this push to be "thin" led to anorexia and needless deaths.)

Today, we live in a fear-based society ruled by "health-fanatics." (I can't wait for this era to end because it's boring, and not much fun!!)

Anyway, the point that I am trying to make is that "things change" thru the decades and generations. And, there are no guarantees that the beliefs and practices of one era are superior and "the end all...be all!" Everything is subject to scrutiny and further examination!!

I don't look at an overweight person and think: "My god, that person must not have any self-control!" Maybe this is because I had people of all shapes and sizes in my family when I was growing up...And some of the so-called "thin" people actually ate more than some of the "heavier people"....I just figured that we all have a different metabolism rate.

And nobody in my family was treated any differently because of their weight, or size, etc. Everyone had value and worth!! We didn't wrap our self-esteem around how we looked on the "outside." We related to each other based on "who we were" on our "insides!!"

My Mom was on the "chunky" side. But, my Dad always thought she was the most beautifulest woman on earth. When my Mom got dressed up to go someplace, my Dad always whistled at her. (It was sure cute!)

My Dad was tall and slim....I seem to take after my Dad's side of the family. (Except for when I was really young.) The women on my Mom's side of the family tend to be a little bigger. But, nobody cared about "body size & shapes" in my family. We were all accepted and loved just the way "we were"...and "still are" today!!

My husband ran into "flack" with his family for being "too thin." His Mom and 4 brothers all gained weight as they got older....except for my husband. (As I said, my husband can eat anything and everything, and never gains weight.) I imagine that his brothers were probably secretly jealous of him, and this is why they put him down for being "too thin." Needless to say, we've never spent much time with my husband's side of the family!! (They aren't really happy and fun people all the time!!)

I try hard not to be "at war" with myself when it comes to food, or other things that I do. If I feel that I might have made a mistake, I try to correct it, and learn from it. But, I am not on my "own back" about "being in control" about everything all the time....In fact, I feel that I should "loosen up" and "lighten up" a lot more...in order to be happier and have more peace in my life, etc. So, I am not inclined to spend my days pointing fingers at people for not having "more control" over what they eat, or don't eat, or do, or don't do, etc. To me, this is being a "busy-body" and a co-dependent.

I don't like to get stuck in "blame" or "shame" because it never leads to happiness. But, I do like to "play scientist" and try to find possible "causes" and solutions to problems in objective ways. (Minus my biases and emotions and personal preferences, prejudices, etc.)

I'm beginning to wonder if those who hate/blame overweight people might be secretly jealous and resentful because they keep themselves on such a "strict regime"....Maybe they need to "lighten up" a bit and let themselves have a little more "leeway" and fun in their life....Just my theory. What do you think? Thanks for writing back, Claire
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Michigan
528 posts, read 1,306,017 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man View Post
I must go puke now.
Hey, everyone has their way to keep thin these days....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man View Post
kb & shoes are a bit off. It's the farmers fault, they raise too much food so we MUST consume it.
even when I think I've heard it all................ No wonder aliens leave.
To me, this is an issue of being informed. We (as consumers) are generally very uninformed (not by choice) when it comes to food. Not only are we uninformed, but we have no control and no say in what will be put into our chicken (for example). While most chicken is filled with junk, Organic has loose regulation, so even if a person WANTS to buy food without junk in it, it's nearly impossible unless you've got your own cows, chickens, and land to grow crops. Sure I can see the list of ingredients on anything I buy, but does the average person really have time to sit there and not only find out what these chemicals are, but how they react with each other and in the human body? Why do some act as though it's ridiculous and almost seem to laugh because I prefer not to have my food dunked in or injected with poison prior to consumption? Is that too freakin' much to ask?

Please tell me how it is that you can sit there and think that it's 1) ok to fill our food with chemicals that were never meant for the human body and 2) that you know enough about those chemicals to say that it's silly to put some blame on the FDA for now allowing us better options as consumers.

I'm not obese and I don't have an obese family, but I am a consumer and I care about what goes into the mouths of my 2 and 4 year old. And people can sit here and give me all kinds of "cheap" meals that are healthy. But how many of them are chemical free? And if they say they are, don't I have the right to that guarantee?

And to those who say "everyone's a victim in this country", quit spreading that broad brushstroke across every topic just because you have nothing worthwhile to offer in the conversation. That phrase is so overused. Do you say that to people who get cancer from their drinking water? "Take responsibility for yourself - go buy bottled water!!!" Come ON. There is a certain amount of personal responsibility, but I should have the right to buy food that hasn't been poisoned first.

Let me as all of you (who don't agree with me) this...

How can you, for one second, disagree right away, when you (likely) know next to nothing about these chemicals? That's when LOGIC (is supposed to) kick in and we should wonder...hmmmm...chemicals in almost every food out there.....cancer rates....hmmm...more and more children with autism....hmmm.....more and more children with athsma.....the list goes on. By no means am I assuming that these things are all linked to food additives, but it's at LEAST worth the question rather than just brushing it off like you KNOW or something.

Oh, but you guys here are chemists and know all about these chemicals...please, do share more of your wisdom (from cavemen no less)....no wonder...if I were a caveman I'd have not a marble in my brain to ask a question to protect my family either and I'd just follow the masses like a herded animal too!
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Southwest Desert
4,166 posts, read 5,174,193 times
Reputation: 3514
Shoes4birds:

I can understand your concerns about the chemicals in foods these days. I have very little faith in the FDA now. But, I don't want to become fearful and phobic about everything either. (Because I know that stress, and my emotional state can affect my physical health and blood pressure too!)

I can't wait to move to Kansas and have some land and space to grow my own vegetables again.

Most of the time, I am a vegetarian. (Not for health reasons, but just because I don't want to eat animals.) I never try to talk anyone else into becoming a vegetarian...and usually don't mention what I eat...or don't eat to other people.

I knew a woman who was a total "health-fanatic." She cooked from scratch and was phobic about everything she put into her body. My friend never smoked or drank, didn't eat meat, "ate organic," and did "everything right" in regards to her health. When she was in her late 40's, she developed cancer, and kept getting cancer in different parts of her body. (She ended up dying at 50.) On her death-bed, she had regrets about her "strict" and "spartan" lifestyle because it didn't "pay off" for her in the end. (Sad story!)

Anyway, I agree with you....I think there needs to be more accountability about what is put into foods these days. Claire
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Old 11-21-2008, 04:33 AM
 
Location: Florida
18,290 posts, read 18,533,242 times
Reputation: 20965
The point of THIS thread is not about meanness or being judgemental.
If "you" are happy being overweight....and many are....go for it.

Just don't blame the government, chemicals in the food or anything else.
A very small percentage have medical issues that keep one from losing, the rest simply eat more than they burn.

If I remember correctly, 3000 calories not used will add 1 pound.
GENERALLY speaking, a diet mainly constructed from fast and/or convenience foods will result in extra pounds, poorer health or both.
Lack of time,money,food additives, etc are excuses for obesity, not reasons.

Just don't expect to not be held responsible when 'you' give your children no choice and feed them the same way.
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Old 11-21-2008, 04:35 AM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,506 posts, read 23,180,936 times
Reputation: 8829
Some people are fat, it happens.......but what the op wants to know is why or who is to blame. There can be all kinds of reasons, most are listed in the previous threads. Your just say'n it's "not nice", and that doesn't address the question. I do agree w/you, yet I also disagree w/you.

My opinion, and I think it smells good.(this is not aimed at you CA, but everyone, ok?)
1.) Who cares if your neighbor is fat. You say your ins. prem.'s go up. How much? Is it really that significant?
2.) Who says that "fat guy/gal" is not happy? Who are we to say if they are happy or not?

Ok, I'm getting off the subject also, sorry.

A person, skinny or fat, must have self control. If you can't stop eating "Whoppers", then don't go to BK. It is not anyones fault but your own if your too fat, too skinny, too drunk, too doped up, too lazy, too sneezy, too dopey, too grumpy, too........I can't remember all their names.] end quote

Thanks Cap Cave Man. The point is that it is a health hazard, and people should try to take care of the issue, I agree the FDA is lax, but we certainly cannot trust the government to look at our best interests, personal health is certainly last on their list as they are about money, serving the food lobbyists, and big business. (That is off-topic, for politics)

This is not about "thin being chic" Do not put words in my mouth. My brother is a physician, and they see more teenage obesity in America that there has been for decades. Something is wrong. What is sickening is that some parents seem to take no responsibility, years ago, my mother would never let us eat garbage fast food, even in the 70's people knew it was unhealthy.

If adults want to poison themselves, fine, but it seems epidemic in America that people think they can eat whatever they want, and weigh 300 lbs., and there's nothing wrong with it (As Type II Diabetes is at a record high) . These are facts.
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Old 11-21-2008, 04:37 AM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,506 posts, read 23,180,936 times
Reputation: 8829
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
The point of THIS thread is not about meanness or being judgemental.
If "you" are happy being overweight....and many are....go for it.

Just don't blame the government, chemicals in the food or anything else.
A very small percentage have medical issues that keep one from losing, the rest simply eat more than they burn.

If I remember correctly, 3000 calories not used will add 1 pound.
GENERALLY speaking, a diet mainly constructed from fast and/or convenience foods will result in extra pounds, poorer health or both.
Lack of time,money,food additives, etc are excuses for obesity, not reasons.

Just don't expect to not be held responsible when 'you' give your children no choice and feed them the same way.
I agree. And anyone who has traveled outside of this country will notice a difference in attitude, people walk alot more, dont eat as much garbage, and don't take offense when obesity is mentioned...
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Old 11-21-2008, 04:52 AM
 
1,884 posts, read 4,015,646 times
Reputation: 2659
shoes, what "poison" and what "chemicals" are you talk'n about? Have you been to a farm that raises plants and animals for consumption?........Or do you read/hear/see some radical bs statement that is full of half truths, or complete lies?

You believe chemicals are what makes people fat, and not the fact that they consume more calories than they release?

Children w/asthma from our food, heard it, it's bs. Why wouldn't an adult get asthma first, they have been eating/breathing these "chemicals" longer. Why wouldn't heavy people have asthma more often than skinny people?

You said your family is not obese, why didn't the FDA make you obese?

Look, I don't care what people eat/drink. People are responsible for themselves and their children and what they eat. It's not BK's, McD's, or the FDA's fault that someone doesn't understand moderation.

btw, the "puke" joke about "it takes a village..." was a political joke as it went along w/food. I hope you understand it wasn't how I "hold" my weight.

As always, post'n w/a smile. Just people voice'n their opinion. Don't get too upset/serious, this is/should be fun.

later
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Old 11-21-2008, 05:00 AM
 
Location: Exit 14C
1,555 posts, read 3,637,381 times
Reputation: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by CArizona View Post
To be honest, I think that my metabolism must have changed through the years, and this is why I am thin . . . When we get on our "high horse" and sit in judgment of overweight people and call them mean names (like "lazy," "gross," etc.)....there is no telling what could happen.
I agree about some of the judgmental terms, although I'm not sure I agree about "lazy". The fact is that if you exercise enough and take in few enough calories, regardless of one's metabolism (although it's certainly easier with a higher metabolism), you're not going to be fat. (So while overweight folks are maybe not "lazy", they at least need to exercise more and/or eat less than they are presently.) It's physically impossible to stay fat if you're exercising enough and not taking in so much, as your body has to obtain energy from somewhere, so as long as you're burning off more than you're taking in, you're going to burn off fat (and then muscle if you're not careful--so once you hit your target weight, you need to adjust your intake/output formula so that you do not start damaging your body). It's also important for people to try to do this gradually. Try to only lose a pound or two per week. Just gradually lower your food intake--you do not need to radically change your diet, although it's important for your health to gradually try to eat more healthy, low-calorie, high-nutrition food, too, but just lessen your portions while you gradually increase your exercise. If you're losing 10 pounds in a week doing this, you're making changes that are too radical. So it's important to have a scale so you can regularly weigh yourself and chart your progress too.
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