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Old 11-18-2008, 10:28 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,844,964 times
Reputation: 1298

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Legalize, deregulate (to the point of Cigarettes, anyone old enough to die for the country can die from that product) and tax all of the following:
All drugs, including:
  1. Marijuana
  2. Hashish
  3. Cocaine
  4. All Rx Drugs
  5. Heroin
  6. Meth
  7. LSD
  8. Ecstasy
Prostitution
All economic activity with Cuba, including tourism, trade and charity.
Scientific research of Stem-Cells

Any other things currently not allowed (or tightly regulated) that could be used to increase economic activity in the US?
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 7,863,957 times
Reputation: 1925
Gambling.
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:29 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,844,964 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuSuSushi View Post
Gambling.
Forgot about that one! Look how much it's improved the economies of Vegas and the Indian tribes throughout the nation. Not really sure what to say about Atlantic City though :-)
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:29 AM
 
5,273 posts, read 11,907,338 times
Reputation: 5745
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
Legalize, deregulate (to the point of Cigarettes, anyone old enough to die for the country can die from that product) and tax all of the following:

All drugs, including:
  1. Marijuana
  2. Hashish
  3. Cocaine
  4. All Rx Drugs
  5. Heroin
  6. Meth
  7. LSD
  8. Ecstasy
Prostitution
All economic activity with Cuba, including tourism, trade and charity.
Scientific research of Stem-Cells

Any other things currently not allowed (or tightly regulated) that could be used to increase economic activity in the US?
You're making a thread on comedy, right?
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:36 AM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 4,938,535 times
Reputation: 3848
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
Any other things currently not allowed (or tightly regulated) that could be used to increase economic activity in the US?
Murder for hire? Selling people for body parts? Slave trade, perhaps?
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:41 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,844,964 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAZER PROPHET View Post
You're making a thread on comedy, right?
No, they are all things that exist on the black market, produce the majority of our crime and would greatly benefit society if taxed and regulated like Cigarettes or Alcohol. If you can't see that, you've got blinders on.

Prohibition of drugs has really worked well, huh? We've got over 1% of our population in jail, that is the highest incarceration rate in the western world, and the money we spend on locking up people who do nothing to anyone but themselves is bankrupting us. For us to survive as an ecnomic power, we need to adapt and adjust. After Prohibition was repealed, the Mafia was weakened, violent crime went down and ecnomic activity in alcohol producing cities skyrocketed.
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:51 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,844,964 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca View Post
Murder for hire? Selling people for body parts? Slave trade, perhaps?
What an idiotic statement.

I'm proposing that we legalize, tax and regulate vices that harm nobody but the people who have those vices. The three things you suggest are abhorrent and are clearly not in the same boat as smoking a joint or paying for sex.

If you actually equate smoking weed, researching stem cells or trading with Cuba to murder, you're clearly irrational and obviously not all that bright.

People like you are the reason why our economy is in such bad shape. You're unwilling to actually look at the facts of the devastation of prohibition while you compare apples to motorcycles. We're not going to solve our economic problems with a .25% interest rate cut. It will come from drastic measures to open up new economic windows that had been closed. The states of North Carolina, Missouri, Wisconsin and Colorado would have no economic activity if it wasn't for the legalization of Alcohol and Tobacco, both just as dangerous as any of the drugs on the list. Alcohol causes dementia, violence, birth defects, accidents and many health issues, and it's legal. So you might as well legalize the others, because they're no worse than alcohol and are in the hands of very dangerous criminals. Wouldn't this nation be better served if the drugs went from the hands of criminals to corporations?

Would you rather have the Gulf Cartel making billions from the sale and traffic of cocaine, marijuana and other drugs in addition to all the collateral damage of power struggles, or would you rather have a tax paying American company producing and selling those items, providing legitimate jobs and eliminating violence related to the trade?

Any rational person can't disagree with me.
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:15 PM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 4,938,535 times
Reputation: 3848
Okay, leftydan, but ... what do you really think about me? Haven't you forgotten to mention how the fall of the Roman Empire is my fault, too? (I would remind you, by the way, that personal attacks are expressly against the rules of the "Great Debates" section, so do try to contain yourself in the future.)

Now, on to the substance. You initial post did not limit legalizing currently illegal activities to "vices that harm nobody". You asked "Any other things currently not allowed (or tightly regulated) that could be used to increase economic activity in the US?" -- thus, by your very question, potential for economic activity was the sole criterion for legalizing something.

You have some nerve accusing me of comparing apples to motorcycles when you yourself engage in the most crude form of boot-strapping. I find it amusing how often supporters of drug legalization demonstrate the harmlessness of heroin by extolling the virtues of pot. The bottom line is, "If pot is okay, then we should legalize everything." Sorry, even if you acquit pot, that does not automatically acquit all other drugs. Every drug should have a separate argument made in its favor -- then you'll have my attention.

And by the way -- with that whole "harmless vice" thing, you really shoot yourself in the foot by arguing to me how harmful alcohol and tobacco are. Obviously, a substance that causes "dementia, violence, birth defects, accidents and many health issues" does not just harm the user -- it also harms the victims of the user's violence, the taxpayers who have to pay for the user's treatment and who lose the the user's tax revenue, and the user's employer who loses productivity, not to mention the user's family, who definitely suffer physically, mentally and financially. You've made a good argument why alcohol and tobacco should be made illegal -- but your statement hardly justifies the legalization of substances which would have similar effects.

You are saying that drugs should be legalized so that they can be "regulated". Preliminarily, prescription drugs are already regulated, so I don't know what you mean by "legalizing" them. My initial impression from your post is that you want them deregulated, not the other way around. Putting prescription drugs aside, this is the point where you should lay off the purple prose and set forth some specifics. What should be the nature of the regulation? How exactly do you want drugs regulated? Who will pay for the regulation? What would be the purpose? I once read a hilarious suggestion that heroin would only be sold to people who aren't addicted. That's nice -- and what will you do about addicts who want H? If users are to pay for the regulation -- what will you do about addicts who have been disabled from employment and have no money? You yourself have not proposed any regulatory scheme. Others have, but I have not so far come across any regulatory scheme that would not still leave a big gaping hole for the drug cartels to fill. Under all theoretical schemes, most people would still get their drugs illegally, on the street, with all the problems that this entails -- namely, drug-related violence.

You mentioned that an American company would provide drugs instead of the cartels. You know, drugs are produced very cheaply in Mexico, South America and South East Asia. What specific proposals do you have to make an American producer competitive with Medellin? Because if you don't, the cartels will still come out on top. I mean, you don't suggest that the US use its military might or political pressure to secure large swaths of Colombian land for American drug companies, do you? If that's not the grossest form of imperialism, I don't know what is. Or maybe, you suggest that American companies simply buy up the business from drug cartels? That would create very few jobs for Americans, since most jobs in drug-making would still be abroad. Alternatively, the plants would have to be domestically grown -- taking arable land away from crops and driving up food prices. What are you going to do about that, genius? Sure, you can make drugs expensive and slap punitive tariffs on those that are imported -- but that would only mean, again, that the black market (i.e. the criminal cartels) will take care of the need for cheap drugs.

I support stem-cell research, but that has little to do with immediately revitalizing economy. All biomedical research requires a tremendous upfront investment, with profits really far in the future. This is not to say it shouldn't be done -- it's just not one of those things that one undertakes to revive the economy.

As for trading with Cuba -- what makes you think Cuba wants to trade with us? I don't think embargoes are effective long-term, but what you are suggesting is restoring relations at any cost. Pretty much every country with which the US has poor relations has conditioned their improvement on monetary grants -- which would be great for their economy, but not necessarily for the American economy. You should also consider a number of American interests that would be financially harmed. Las Vegas would lose money. Cruise ports in Florida would see their business decline (I mean, look at the map). Similarly, increased tourism in Cuba and charity to Cuba would be great for Cuba -- but I don't see what it would do for the American economy. (Not to mention the fact that plenty of folks in the Dominican Republic, Mexico, and other budget Caribbean destinations might have something to say about this.)

In sum, your suggestions are simplistic and lack any practical basis. Since I am not particularly impressed with slogans and heartfelt commentary that isn't grounded in complex political and economic contingencies, I made a comment that merely highlighted the puerility of your arguments.
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:16 PM
 
5,273 posts, read 11,907,338 times
Reputation: 5745
I'm debating if this thread is even worth commenting on...

Well, let's see, if we decriminalize drugs and prostitution we thereby condone it. As other countries have found out who tried these things, it nets a new generation of drug addicts wholly supported by the state. This, in turn, causes taxes to sky rocket upwards to meet the new demands. It also drmatically increases crime to support these new legal addictions. Most countries who have tried these things have gone back to criminalizing them out of basic human necessity.

Why should we go down this road and make the same mistake others have? Is this the "change" obama may bring?

For the sake of my children and grand children, I sure hope not.
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:44 PM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,844,964 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAZER PROPHET View Post
I'm debating if this thread is even worth commenting on...

Well, let's see, if we decriminalize drugs and prostitution we thereby condone it. As other countries have found out who tried these things, it nets a new generation of drug addicts wholly supported by the state. This, in turn, causes taxes to sky rocket upwards to meet the new demands. It also drmatically increases crime to support these new legal addictions. Most countries who have tried these things have gone back to criminalizing them out of basic human necessity.

Why should we go down this road and make the same mistake others have? Is this the "change" obama may bring?

For the sake of my children and grand children, I sure hope not.
Where is your proof? My proof is in the Netherlands where the violent crime rate is 1/4th of ours.

As for the deregulation of Rx drugs, I believe in the deregulation so people wouldn't need to spend $45 on their copay to see a doctor, another $45 to see the specialist and then a $45 copay to get the Rx when it would be a lot easier to just go directly to the drug store and buy it over the counter. Cigarettes are sold this way, anyone over 18 can buy, so why not everything else? The savings on pointless enforcement would more than cover the costs of rehabilitation.

Any new economic activity is good economic activity. People would import Cuban products like rum and tobacco and sell them, creating more economic activity.

The dumbest of all arguments is the "if we legalize it, we condone it"...what does that even mean? Your kids should know what's right and wrong because of you, and other countries laugh at us for our stupid laws as they relax theirs. Look at all of Europe: Prostitution is regulated and legalized in most European countries, marijuana is decriminalized in many parts and they provide rehabilitation instead of incarceration for hard drug users.

And what kind of idiot would actually think that an illegal cartel from Colombia or Mexico would be able to somehow win the market over legal companies? Ever hear of Al Capone? How about Budweiser? Which one is still in business? The proof is in history, criminalization of vice only leads to one thing: GANGS and CRIME.

Gambling is the same, the more legal it gets, the less control the Mafia has over it. Prostitution is controlled by organized crime everywhere except in the rural parts of Nevada where it is safely regulated.

As for the hard drugs, I do not condone their use, but making people criminals for using is not helping us in any way. Usage has not gone down and incarceration is up to 1% of our population. It has created powerful criminal organizations and destroyed entire neighborhoods. Decriminalization would only be one part, it would still be controlled by dangerous organizations, so legalization would be the only option. Only sell to adults and if they kill themselves, it's their fault. If they kill someone else, it's still murder and still a horrific crime. But it's not like meth-fueled crime doesn't exist now...so why not make it so people feel more comfortable getting help and keep the money away from criminals and put it in the hands of corporations. Sorry, but there's not a single rational argument that will change any of this. Legalization and taxation would be far more beneficial to our society than black market controlled illegal drug traffic.

Prostitution is the world's oldest profession...and it exists everywhere, even Utah. Why not make tax money on it?
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