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There is harm -- because you are requiring "all business in America" to be in English. So if I go into a French restaurant and order in French from a French-speaking waiter -- bam, I've violated the law. Would you make it a felony, by the way? Punishable by a prison term? Geez, let's call 911, call the police and the FBI and slap handcuffs on me, I've violated the official language law. Let's start an investigation and convene a grand jury! And hell, let's go crazy, put the restaurant out of business because its waiter said something that someone it was not even intended for, two tables away, did not understand. Now, if I speak English, but I name a product by its ethnic name because it has no English equivalent -- I suppose that that would be a "gray area", huh? Sure, sure. Let's stop catching rapists and murderers and concentrate on the real danger -- Americans who are so unpatriotic as to speak a foreign language in America outside the classroom or the bedroom. Let's fill prisons with these dangerous offenders who dare speak in a way not approved by the majority, and let's put fear in the hearts of all other shoppers and restaurant patrons of slipping up and uttering something that's not found in the Merriam Webster. I mean -- I hope you don't feel "belittled", but really, that would be the practical result of what you are proposing, punishing people for private speech, speech that is innocuous and does not endanger anyone. To come back to your earlier question -- why should consenting people have to communicate in a language other than the one of their own choosing? What's it to you if a shopkeeper and a customer choose to transact their business in a language other than English? This conduct has never been made illegal by any jurisdiction in this country, and criminalizing it sure smacks of totalitarian policies. Just out of curiosity -- which countries do this?
I'd like to start by saying that your command of the English language is excellent. This is a second language for you?
Enough with the pleasantries. You sound like an emigre. What's the deal with the "all business in America" be in English. You really don't get it. What we want is for you to file a form, printed in English, and pay your taxes.
I've been to French restaurants in NYC where the sign and menu were in French and the waiters spoke only French. If English were to be made the official language, that would not change. You do not violate an official language law by choosing to speak a foreign language in a business. I find it a plus to enter a business, say, a Japanese restaurant, and find that the staff speaks Japanese.
I went to an Arabic grocery in Philadelphia with my nephew; he wanted some cheese and I was looking for mastic for my Fattah. No one spoke English. OK, one man spoke some English. No one cared.
If you operate a Mexican imported food store in a neighborhood where many Mexicans live and the staff speak Spanish, I don't see that as a problem. Someone on the premises should speak some English. The rest should be in language classes.
I'm sorry if you were born in a country where people were dragged off to prison in the middle of the night because they did not do the right thing. It can take a lifetime to get over that.
911? The Grand Jury? What you may be looking at is prejudice, not the law. You're the only one here I'd like to put in handcuffs. It has nothing to do with language; it's just because you're damned annoying.
Gerania: please reread the post to which I was replying. Rathagos proposed the following language for the official-language amendment:
"In America, the official language will be English. It will also be the official business language, and all business in America (between Americans) will be conducted in English."
(Emphasis added.) Rule number one of statutory interpretation: A statute is interpreted exactly as written according to the plain dictionary meaning of its words, unless it is ambiguous on its face. Now, Rathagos' statute seems completely unambiguous to me. "All business in America between Americans will be conducted in English", to me, means that, uhm, all business transactions between US citizens must be in English. Placing an order in a restaurant is an act of conducting business; so is buying groceries or negotiating the purchase of a house. Under Rathagos' statute, all those acts would have to be in English even if all parties to the transaction are willing and able to use another language -- thus placing an order in French in a French restaurant in the United States would be a violation. I was, of course, facetious in my reply -- but then again, the draft that Rathagos proposed would have exactly those ridiculous consequences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerania
You're the only one here I'd like to put in handcuffs. It has nothing to do with language; it's just because you're damned annoying.
You want to put me in handcuffs because you don't like what I am saying? Wow. Now, that's some commitment to free speech.
I think we should have an official language and that it should be English, only because English in the traditional language in this country and has served us well. I have no problem with people speaking other languages, but there should be one official language. If other people are not willing to respect the fact that most Americans only speak English, let them stay wherever it is thay came from. I do not feel that I should be able to speak a multitude of languages in order to communicate with whoever I happen to come in contact with. When I was in other countries, I made an effort to learn their language, even though I was only there for a short time. I felt it was a show of respect.
Masonsdaughter: A symbolic law is meaningless, and it won't make anybody respect zilch. It does not make sense to enact any law unless it sets forth specific requirements and imposes penalties for failure to meet them, where applicable. So when you say you want English to be named the official language, you have to say exactly what you want done. You seem to be upset about the fact that some people come to the United States and don't bother to speak English. I hear what you are saying, but I don't see how you can enact any law that would force people to speak a certain language, in a way that won't offend the Constitution. The law does not provide a remedy for every wrong. Sorry.
I was against having English as an official language for a really long time. The first time (and incidentally not the last..) I was turned down for a job because I wasn't bi-lingual was the last straw. I can speak, read and write in 3 languages comfortably, and I'm working on two more but none of them are Spanish, so I'm not considered bi-lingual. How is THAT fair??
Me too!
I speak German and Russian (thanks to my immigrants parents, who had no problem learning English when they immigrated to the U.S.), and some Finnish as well, but I've actually been told "those are useless languages to know in this country". Next semester, I plan on taking some Spanish courses. It seems almost necessary now. That way, I would be deemed 'hirable' for for jobs-hell, I could even communicate with some of my coworkers (who are-surprise-immigrants who don't speak English!)
I don't think it's a bad idea to make English the official language of the U.S. Of course, there's nothing wrong with retaining your original cultural and identity (I speak a strange mix of English/Russian/German with my folks), but as far as public departments (education, hospitals, etc) it would probably make communications much easier, and another way for immigrants to assimilate in American society.
Masonsdaughter: A symbolic law is meaningless, and it won't make anybody respect zilch. It does not make sense to enact any law unless it sets forth specific requirements and imposes penalties for failure to meet them, where applicable. So when you say you want English to be named the official language, you have to say exactly what you want done. You seem to be upset about the fact that some people come to the United States and don't bother to speak English. I hear what you are saying, but I don't see how you can enact any law that would force people to speak a certain language, in a way that won't offend the Constitution. The law does not provide a remedy for every wrong. Sorry.
I do not want to force anyone to do anything. Personally I do not care what language anyone speaks, but at the rate we are going it will not be long until we will see lawsuits because a store clerk cannot speak some customers language or companies will be sued because they cannot provide a translator for a line worker. Where will we be if we cannot understand each other? Can you imagine a military or fire department trying to function when they do not speak the same language? I am simply saying that having an official language can head off a lot of future problems. Rather than forcing anyone, an official language would ensure that we do not have to learn other languages if we have no wish to.
"Know any the heck language you want, but have one the same so when the paramedics ask you where it hurts they can start the right treatment instead of looking for an interpreter."
I like it the way it is.....no official language, English as the unofficial official language of the country. I would like to see Spanish taught more widely though. I think every immigrant should learn English, and I think every kid in America should be taught Spanish beginning in kindergarten. I only regret that I can't speak Spanish better than I can now.
Official /government related .......English.
Businesses, IMO, are private and can do whatever they think is most advantageous for them.
Count me in as one more that would not expect to go to another country without learning the language and expect the same for those that come here.
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