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Old 11-29-2008, 08:50 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,340 posts, read 10,911,844 times
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It has been suggested that kids these days have an inordinate amount of praise heaped on them and not enough constructive critisizm thus leading them into a false security about their abilities and leaving them lacking in a desire to improve and strive for higher acheivment. This in the name of not wounding thier "self esteem". hmmmmm
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Old 11-29-2008, 10:28 AM
 
1,884 posts, read 4,017,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Who said anything about the government? I suggested that the people, our society, should care about them. and you have stated loud and clear that you don't give a Flying F* about them. Your point is made and noted.

It is you who is forcing our government to do all that it does, because you hide in your cave and refuse to care about the well being of anybody except your own family. If you cared, the government would not need to. In fact, you don't even know the meaning of the word CARE, because when I used it, you didn't know what I was talking about, and blathered off on your usual rant about the government, which had not previously been referenced.
I'm sorry, my post was NOT aimed at you, it was just a post. You didn't say anything about govt', It was an assumption that I made when you talked about school districts, nation, America, etc. I do appologize.

My post was taken wrong, and if you knew what I did for our community you would understand. Not your fault as I've never stated.

I'm tired of defending my posts when people take it wrong. Read my post, if you still feel the same, fine. If not, fine.

Maybe later I'll care more to post.
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Old 11-29-2008, 10:52 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,037,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I guess if a nation worships money, the only solution they can think of is to throw money at a problem. If that doesn't work, they just shrug and say "We tried"

I wonder what would happen to America if anybody actually threw interest or concern or caring at a problem, instead of just throwing money at it. What would happen if an entire school district actually CARED if all the kids did well at school, and not just your own, and not just the band. An entire city. State. Nation.

Oh, it's so much easier to just blame the kids, and keep blaming them when they grow up, and tell them it is their own fault if they cannot find a way to get rich, and deny them a helping hand when their world keeps slipping farther and farther down.
The problem that you are not addressing is the parents. We as a society cannot make parents care about their children, much less their childrens progress in school. As a society, we can tax everyone to death and put more money into the schools but without parental support and envolvement those children will still fail. Also, the teachers can care, the school aides can care, the parents that do volunteer can care -- and that would probably help some of the at risk kids. But not all. I am in no way saying that it is not worth it to try.....to save one kid from a life of disapointment and poverty would be worth it. But ultimately the answer lies with the childs family. And I have no idea on how to make a parent give a ****...do you?
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Old 11-29-2008, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Louisiana
1,740 posts, read 2,932,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elvislives View Post
In 20 years they will be saying the same thing we are ...Those damn kids don't know anything .... Why back in my day.......
Somehow I doubt this, although it is true that as the generations continue, the amount of empirical knowledge appears to lessen. This can be attributed to two things: parents who don't know how to nurture and schools that have been infused with leftist values. There was a "Cultural Literacy" fad about 20 years ago that easily demonstrated how poorly children are being taught today.

Moreover, there is no attempt at teaching critical thinking. Most recently I cringed as I watched a contestant on the "Millionaire" quiz show phone a friend for help on an easy $4000 question, but the friend had no idea what the answer might be either. I don't recall the specifics of the question, but the answer among the 4 possible ones was so obvious to someone who knew how to eliminate the wrong answers using logic and reason.
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Old 11-29-2008, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,179 posts, read 9,120,242 times
Reputation: 9523
I'd like to say that I am hopeful, but in truth I am not, in a general sense.

When children are rewarded simply for showing up, not competing skill for skill, against not only others but themselves, and expanding their own horizons and abilities, they will grow up to expect that they will be forever rewarded simply for "showing up" - at a job, at college, as a parent. If they have no need to learn, to achieve, to stretch themselves, they will never learn how, and will lapse into dependency and mediocrity.

My children are all adults in the YOA sense. Two are hardworking; have held jobs since they were each 14 - real working, paycheck jobs - and are self-sufficient and productive. They put themselves through college and worked for everything they got. Our middle child - did not. He received an all-expense-paid four-year scholarship for his musical talent - and dropped out four months later. He and his GF firmly believe that the world owes them a living. They cannot figure out why they are poor and cannot get good and high-paying jobs - they are smart, and people should appreciate that and respect that. In the high school all of my children attended, that attitude was and is the norm - a day care center on campus to take care of the students' children, a total lack of self-respect or respect for others. I attended (as an EMT) the birth of a 14 YOA's second child - whose mother told me casually, "Yeah, we don't know who got her pregnant this time - her boyfriend or mine."

When you have such attitudes towards education, self-respect and respect for others, work ethics or the lack thereof, and the "you owe me" attitude in the schools, in the society, and even in the homes, you cannot raise intelligent and self-aware children to be productive, creative, and hard-working adults. Even as a parent who demanded excellence and productivity and the ability to forever learn and forever progress upward in both skill and cognizance, we were blessed with two who 'got it' and one who didn't, and he probably at this late date never will. Even if one out of three children think that the world owes them a living, that they are entitled to food, clothing, shelter, and medical care simply because they exist, that is a third of the children who will demand succor from the other two thirds!

I currently work at a very rural high school where the kids are raised to work HARD on the ranches and farms, working before sunup and after nightfall. Nevertheless most of them are actively involved in sports, drama, art, FFA (Future Farmers of America), the American Legion, choral, and band. They are committed to growing and expanding themselves and their spirits. There are no drugs. (No I'm not being Pollyanna - there are NO DRUGS.) Most can shoot and hunt before they are in High school, so everyone has guns and knows how to use them - and how NOT to. They eschew drugs, gangs, and ramapant sexual involvement because they have too much to do, and their eyes are on their futures and what they can become. Unfortunately these kids seem to be the exception, not the rule. The basis of this forward looking commitment is their parents, who also work long hours and support, even demand, that their children excel. PTO meetings and Parent-Teachers' conferences are attended over 83%. Most who graduate from here go on to college - not just community college, but medical universities, ag universities, and veterinary schools - as well as law school and even a few Ivy-league colleges. Not only practical work, but profitable work as well. The difference between these kids and kids from where mine grew up, as well as kids in higher-populated areas, is that there are no excuses for not being involved. Time, pressures, personal self-gratification, are not issues because the parents and the local society do not permit them to become so.

When we permit some people to not accept their responsiblities as parents, as teachers, or as students, the lassitude extends to all. "If those kids don't have to work, why should we?" I fear we as a society have become too self-indulgent and self-involved in instant gratification to raise an upcoming society of responsible, thoughtful, and cognizant adults.

Last edited by SCGranny; 11-29-2008 at 11:28 AM.. Reason: spelling as usual sigh
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Old 11-29-2008, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Louisiana
1,740 posts, read 2,932,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
With the dropout rate and the world advancing without them;they will be on some kind of assistanace by the millons;I am afraid.The will be whining more than now about teh gap between the rich and poor.
Sorry, texdave, the newly-elected government will have established a society in which there are no rich people. Everyone will have the same income and everyone will be equal no matter how much or how little they know.
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Old 11-29-2008, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Louisiana
1,740 posts, read 2,932,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAZER PROPHET View Post
They said that same stuff when I was in high school in the late 1970's. Our country is changing towards socialism and the "state" will take care of the people who aren't acheivers.
You might want to tackle James Joyce's Ulysses, BP. It will be worth the effort and frustration.

There are misinformed people who think that, somehow, throwing more tax money at schools and creating more entitlements is the answer, but it's not. In order to correct the problem with our ailing schools, we'll need to do a lot, but to begin with, we should make parents more responsible for their children, make teachers adhere to stricter standards and do away with the NEA.
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Old 11-29-2008, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Louisiana
1,740 posts, read 2,932,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGranny View Post
I'd like to say that I am hopeful, but in truth I am not, in a general sense.
Way to go SCGranny.

I quit teaching when I was told that I was not permitted to fail any of my students.
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Old 11-29-2008, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
7,091 posts, read 10,490,270 times
Reputation: 4104
We as a people have made it way to easy to coast along being mediocre or worse and still pass. It's so sad to see where competition has given way to everyone gets a winning trophy for showing up. I can't see respecting a system where failing is still passing. When I was growing up, if you got an F they really stuck it to you...retake the class over the summer, be humiliated, and if you screwed up enough fail the grade. Now when I was in Grad school failing was C, and you had to really try and get a C...some (like management of teams) gave you a B just for showing up.

Not everyone can be an astronaut, I know I couldn't (if I was still trying to be a researcher I would have never found how good I am at finance)...without striving what's the point? We can't give plaques to kids for just being there, we have to get them to excel to compete...for every winner there must be losers. Kids in other countries (in high class areas) are pretty much required to compete to even get in, and fight to stay in (such as India).

I have found failure to be more educational then any success...I have certainly had my fair share, and picked myself up to fight harder or change the direction of my focus.
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Old 11-29-2008, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,590,043 times
Reputation: 35869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosinante View Post
Sorry, texdave, the newly-elected government will have established a society in which there are no rich people. Everyone will have the same income and everyone will be equal — no matter how much or how little they know.
No, I doubt the conservative will let him get away with that. At the end of his term, Americans will still be requiring that tens of millions of mindless tasks be performed by docile, unthinking uncritical workers, and those workers will still be punished with sub-poverty wages and no health care, and their station will sltill be blamed on their own shortomings of personal responsibility, and their children will continue to grow up without a clue, to follow in their parents footsteps, down there where they belong, so the rich can keep getting richer at the expense of the necessary sub-working class. And the rich will stil have to arm themselves, so they can kill any poor people who get recalcitrant and say they're not going to take it anymore. The rich want it that way---for sport, you know.

Now, can we get back to the point, are is this topic also going to be turned into a mindless anti-Obama hate-tirade?
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