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Old 12-05-2008, 05:56 AM
Location: Iowa
331 posts, read 1,207,682 times
Reputation: 237


Originally Posted by dvcgal View Post
We live in a area that has a 24 hour Wal-Mart and nothing like has ever happened. People are already in line and waiting before the sale starts. Now, I have seen a few fist fights due to line cutting, but the smartest thing for Wal-Mart to do is to open their doors early, keep the inventory wrapped, like they do at the 24 hour stores and just have constant security watching and give out tickets to those in line for big items like Best Buy does.
makes perfect sense, and don't have just 1 person guarding it, have 3, 4, 9, whatever it takes.

Old 12-05-2008, 08:12 AM
39,058 posts, read 23,165,932 times
Reputation: 12156
With regards to the man who died on Black Friday, there seems to be a presumption that Wal-Mart sent this one large man out to confront an impatient, rowdy crowd of two thousand. They didn't open the doors of the fort, send one lone soldier out to confront the rampaging Indians. They HAD set up barricades for crowd control, they HAD put extra employees on the payroll, including extra security, they HAD hired outside security, they HAD called the police in for additional support when the crowd grew to more than 500 people.

People keep bringing up comparisons to concerts and sporting events. Well, there are differences between crowds at retail venues and crowds at entertainment venues. Security at a Boston Red Sox game doesn't have the distraction of theft prevention. Security at a Metropolitan Opera have straightforward solutions when people are arguing over a seat. Security at Toys R Us can't look at a ticket and say, yes, this XBox is yours, sir, it says so right on the ticket. Large arenas for concerts and sporting events are designed with multiple entrances and exits to get people in and out efficiently. Retail stores generally have only one or two entrances because of theft prevention efforts. The crowds going to events are generally happy, they've got their ticket, they're looking forward to the event. Happy people are much easier to control than impatient ones who've been waiting in line to get a product, and become more concerned by the minute as they see additional people arrive that that's one more person they're going to have to beat to the electronics department.

Could Wal-Mart have done more? Yes. But they took several measures to control that crowd, and the measures they took were appropriate to what they could reasonably have expected. They based their decision on the crowds that have occured previously at that store, on the size and types of crowds that appear at thousands and thousands of retail stores all across the country on Black Friday. They hired outside help, and asked for police support. The crowd that pushed these heavy doors off their hinges, bending the door frames and killed this man, that impeded the police as they tried to assist the fallen, that refused to stop shopping when store management asked them to do so, this crowd could hardly have been anticipated since there was no precedent for such a crowd before. There have been incidents of people being knocked down and stepped on in the initial rush on Black Friday, but this crowd took "rush" to a whole new level.
Old 12-05-2008, 08:16 AM
Location: 602/520
2,441 posts, read 5,937,193 times
Reputation: 1815
Originally Posted by LynnePatrice View Post
You know how I know 90% of the stuff they sell at Walmart is JUNK??? Because I was forced to shop at Walmart when I lived in a very Rural area and most of the clothes I got there fell apart when I washed them, electronics and the like broke quickly, things were poorly made.

Sorry, but the quality is absolutely not there for most of Walmarts products.

Obviously the toilet paper, etc is the same if it is the same brand. Don't be dumb.

Anyone who is accusing me of being a snob or shopping at Barney's are WRONG.

Just because I choose to NOT shop at Walmart does not put me instantly at Nordstrom and Bloomingdales.

In addition, it absolutely was Walmarts fault for placing an untrained man in front of a large crowd for crowd control. I don't know how anyone on here can argue this. Oh, he should have said no, I'm not doing it??? He's a temporary employee at Walmart during the holidays, he probably took the extra job because he needed money.

You simply cannot argue these facts. PLENTY of other stores do these Black Friday Sales and control the crowd. AND IF THEY DIDN"T, I WOULD BLAME THEM TOO! EVEN IF IT WAS BARNEYS!
Can you please give examples of some of the items you purchased that were "junk?" Again, Walmart sells the same brands of products as other stores do. You are acting like 100 percent of the items found in Walmart are exclusive to Walmart. Just not true. Walmart sells the same EXACT brands as other stores, just for a cheaper price. Electronics purchased at Walmart are the exact same as are sold at Best Buy or Circuit City. If the electronics you bought are falling apart, I would place the blame on the manufacturer and not the store that sells them. I don't know how clothes "fall apart," and I am not sure that it's Walmart's fault if your clothes did "fall apart." I have had my washing machine tear buttons off of some of my shirts, but the problem was actually my washing machine, and not the store who sold me the shirt.

Lastly, I think you should give people more credit for being free-thinking beings. The man who was trampled to death had an option of whether or not to work the door. Whether he needed money or not is irrelevant. If I need money, it is my decision what risks I am willing to take to earn that money. My employer is not at fault for my decision. I don't see how that is so hard to understand.
Old 12-05-2008, 08:20 AM
Location: 602/520
2,441 posts, read 5,937,193 times
Reputation: 1815
Originally Posted by musicwriter View Post
while i agree with most of the rest of what you said, how do you think a single man is going to control 2,000 people? it is just not possible.

I'm not very smart when it comes to physics, but say the average weight of the people in that line is 150Lb,X 2,000 people, that nearly equals the weight of 4 fully loaded semis. I don't know anyone who can stop 1, let alone 4 semis.

Also, the man could have said whatever he wanted to the crowd, that isn't going to stop them when they're angry because a couple people were let in the store, although the people in the crowd didn't know they were employees coming to work.
If he did not feel he could control the crowd, he should have said something. Most people would realize that they are not capable of controlling a crowd of 2,000. I assume he was a free-thinking human. At least give him credit for that.
Old 12-05-2008, 08:42 AM
Location: Cold Frozen North
1,928 posts, read 4,524,365 times
Reputation: 1266
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
Walmart could not care less about repairing its image. I doesn't need to.
People will always need to work there, so they'll always have enough workers.
Customers will always shop at the cheapest place, regardless of whom it may be hurting.
Suppliers will always want to sell to them, even though Walmart will cut out most of their profits, because of the quantities involved.
So, OP can boycott all he wants, but it makes not one whit of difference to Walmart.
All of this is sad, but true.
Old 12-05-2008, 11:23 AM
730 posts, read 2,545,490 times
Reputation: 336
Originally Posted by miamiman View Post
If he did not feel he could control the crowd, he should have said something. Most people would realize that they are not capable of controlling a crowd of 2,000. I assume he was a free-thinking human. At least give him credit for that.
Are you now trying to place some of the blame on the guy who got crushed? Tsk Tsk as you would say.

Examples of things I have bought at Walmart (it's been a long time, so forgive me if the list is short)

Bras that the strap broke on within 6 wearings
Bracelet that broke the first time I wore it
Christmas tree stand that broke when we put the tree into it
Blender that the jar part cracked on in the dishwasher
Blender that started smoking during use

Re: how close "fall apart" - let's not be so literal, when I say fell apart I mean it didn't wash well, shrunk and stretch out, pilled on the fabric, etc. etc.

I never said 100% of their products were junk.
Old 12-05-2008, 01:45 PM
Location: York, PA
2,662 posts, read 5,140,054 times
Reputation: 2562
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
Best thing for them to do would be to close. Yes, there would be a temporary financial setback for thousands of employees, but existing businesses would see an immediate marked upswing in sales volume, so new jobs would be created on a more local level. This would be beneficial to both the employees who would now have better opportunities and local communities who would keep more moeny in their communities.
Sadly, As long as people continue to support this monster and buy it's cheap and inexpensive goods, then it will continue to thrive.
Old 12-05-2008, 02:00 PM
48,519 posts, read 81,076,846 times
Reputation: 17978
As long as people put the blame for acting like thugs on things like stores instead of the thugs this will contimue.When it comes to be that to have a sporting event or go shopping you need a riot sqaud satndingby;its says alot about the society itself. There are how many wal-marts in the country and only this one had such a incident.There are just thugs in thsi society face it;as evidenced after the incident when the ploice had truble making people leave.This is what causes many companies to move oput of these ares as they have in the past.
Old 12-05-2008, 07:00 PM
Location: Moon Over Palmettos
5,975 posts, read 17,152,809 times
Reputation: 4989
And exactly how much security is enough? If this particular Walmart hired twenty and the people still broke down the door, and someone died (an employee, a customer, one of the security people, a child, etc. etc.), is Walmart immune from an impending suit, or criticism? I don't think so. I think Walmart should offer, if it hasn't already, some compensation to the family, but of course, the defendant has deep pockets and here we go again with our litigious society.

Like someone said, Walmart could care less about it's "image". It's image is about Price not quality. Price is what they emphasize in their ads...the customers they will attract the most are those who care about price and there are more of them than those who call for quality so they'll be in business for a looooong time and are not about to change their business model.

As far as selling goods made in America, I'm sure they would try to make an effort if they could, especially where textile is involved (sheets, towels, clothing, etc.), but most of the textile companies have closed and sold out. Springs here in the Carolinas was one of the most recent ones who sold their entire operation to Brazil. I don't know of too many textile companies still around, so where are they supposed to go. And truly, after visiting the garment district in NY, I know that they too import that from third world countries and re-brand them in their warehouse as Anne Klein, Anne Taylor and then sell them for 300%. I bought a couple of dresses some years ago before the retail tags were attached. As far as I'm concerned, a Hamilton Beach blender that breaks purchased from Walmart would break purchased from Bed Bath & Beyond, Linens N Things or Walgreens. It's the brand that's cheap. If you don't want things to break, read up on the brand and buy a Cuisinart. Go to Talbot's and buy a cashmere sweater there, and not a "cashmere" sweater from Walmart where it is tagged as Wash In Cold instead of dryclean. I just don't see the logic of buying tea lights at Yankee Candle for $15 when I can get tea lights to just put inside my Halloween pumpkin for $3 at Walmart. It's all about choosing whether you want brand or generic for the items. For items you expect to last, pick a brand, and if it's not available at Walmart, don't get something similar, and then complain that it's junk when it breaks.
Old 12-06-2008, 09:42 AM
Location: The #1 sunshine state, Arizona.
12,172 posts, read 15,015,654 times
Reputation: 64014
With the down turn the economy has taken, I think the Wal-Mart haters will be shopping for deep discounts and they will end up in, you know where, Wal-Mart.
Not shopping Wal-Mart is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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