When do we curtail individual freedoms for the good of all? Regarding Climate Change, Pollution.etc (Al Gore, generations)

[Trimac20]

I think it's pretty clear that if we go on the way we are, living the way we do, an industrial, consumerist society that consumes vast resources and pollutes the world, the world will be in begin trouble very, very soon. It may even be too late to fully reverse the effects of things like global warming and climate change, and it's obviously too late to bring back a lot of the eco-systems we have lost. We don't need Al Gore to tell us that. The issue for me is, people on the whole still want to live the same lifestyles: they want cool gadgets, they want to drive cars, we want to build taller and taller skyscrapers, products are getting even more disposable, the net human impact is growing. And that's not even talking about emerging countries like China, India and Latin America. People - Americans in particular - are generally vehemently against these being taken away from them. Look at some of the attitudes towards public transport use...My question is, at one point do governments or governing authorities step in and say, enough and enough? The way you're living is irresponsible? When will politicians grow a pair and stand up to big businesses and other corporate interests, when will they realise that without natural resources a country's GDP's means nothing?

I personally think large-scale, draconian measures need to be put in place NOW, even if it smacks of being interventionist. Fossil fuels will probably be very scarce by 2050, now is the time to start phasing out petroleum on a large scale. We should aim to rely totally on alternative energy sources by 2050., for instance. Packaging is another thing: think of all the oil that plastic bags take to make, and how even now much of it is not recycled and is thrown into the sea. Also shifting from a consumerist, disposable society to one which values and treasures long-lasting things.

I think a total re-structing of the world economy is another thing we need to address. Our reliance on China is plain scary, and in the long run will be beneficial for neither them nor us. We have to think globally, as a global community, not as nations who only care about their own interests. For as we know what is happening to our planet now and what will happen affects all of us. (gets off soap-box)

[mustangman66]

I agree with you 150%. Unfortunately, there arent a lot of people out there that feel the same way as I am sure you will find out once people start posting. There are a lot of people out there that are self absorbed that do not look at the big picture, only whats good for them, right now. They fail to realize that their world would not exist if it was not for our environment. Have to think of future generations.

[cittic10]

Originally Posted by Trimac20

My question is, at one point do governments or governing authorities step in and say, enough and enough? The way you're living is irresponsible? When will politicians grow a pair and stand up to big businesses and other corporate interests, when will they realise that without natural resources a country's GDP's means nothing?

+++ They will do it when money and corporate influence is removed from politics.

See, politicians don't want to stand up to big businesses because they are the politician's paymasters. Both of the accepted political parties are to blame. We live in an oligarchy where the richest and most powerful and the corporations get the legislation they want. A long time ago, it used to be a government for the people, by the people but not any longer.

[Trimac20]

Originally Posted by cittic10

+++ They will do it when money and corporate influence is removed from politics.

See, politicians don't want to stand up to big businesses because they are the politician's paymasters. Both of the accepted political parties are to blame. We live in an oligarchy where the richest and most powerful and the corporations get the legislation they want. A long time ago, it used to be a government for the people, by the people but not any longer.

What a deplorable state of affairs!

That's what 'small government' really means...A government whose strings are pulled by the corporations, who run a lot of things. American election campaigns are more like popularity contests, it seems you hear more about the personalities of candidates or their views on hot button issues (or controversial sayings) rather than their stances on policy, what they'll do. Make an inspiration speech quoting MLK, or talk about how poor people without health insurance deserve to die, and you'll get support. That's mob politics and capitalism run rampart and it will result in a less free society.

[cb at sea]

I don't know if "global warming" is happening or not...the earth cycles through periods of cold and heat.....it's a process that is beyond our changing. I certainly don't believe humans have a thing to do with it.

We do NOT need the government telling us what form of transportation we need to take, or how to cook our food, or cut our grass....they are WAAAAAY too involved in our lives now.

Petroleum will "phase itself out" in time....but we have nothing to replace it with at this time, and we have plenty for the foreseeable future....it's day will come, but now is not the time.

Allow the marketplace to dictate the next fuel or invention....the government cannot and should not do it.

[mustangman66]

I agree the govt gets involved in certain things they shouldnt but this is one that they should. Even if global warning is just a process of earth, it goes beyond that. Our water is getting polluted, there is litter all ove the place. Many people still dont recycle, forests are being cut down, the list goes on. Our population is growing and this will only get worse as time goes on.

There should be no price tag on taking care of the environment.

[hoffdano]

Originally Posted by mustangman66

There should be no price tag on taking care of the environment.

If only there was a clear definition of what it means to take care of the environment.

If you were to say that we need to be off fossil fuels in ten years then life would be miserable for millions, perhaps billions of people. Taking care of the environment absolutely has costs, and some of them are likely to be unacceptable.

For the OP, we don't need Al Gore for anything. Whatever global warming has occurred or is occurring can be reversed because it has happened before.

Replicating the effects of large volcanoes might be enough to lower the temperature to where many scientists believe it needs to be.

[mustangman66]

hoffdano, im not even saying that we need to be completely off fossil fuels. I just think that the car manufacturers should have stricter standards. I mean we have the technology to make cars get unbelievable mpg's but they just dont do it. In the 1970's a diesel (granted not clean diesel) VW Rabbit could get over 50 mpg, yet in 2012 it seems to be a problem to get that many mpg's on all cars? Just an example.

[Trimac20]

Originally Posted by mustangman66

hoffdano, im not even saying that we need to be completely off fossil fuels. I just think that the car manufacturers should have stricter standards. I mean we have the technology to make cars get unbelievable mpg's but they just dont do it. In the 1970's a diesel (granted not clean diesel) VW Rabbit could get over 50 mpg, yet in 2012 it seems to be a problem to get that many mpg's on all cars? Just an example.

Ten years is an unrealistic period as well. Well fossil fuel WILL run out some day, so the soon we phase it out the better it'll be. Actually more referring to the previous post, but imagine the consequences THEN? The phasing out period may take 50 years, but it will take a combination of government support, conscientious big businesses who don't only think about profits, grass roots support - getting people truly educated. If they're educated and they don't want to comply than that's simply human selfishness sand only a change of heart can change that. The question is, do we care enough to change? Can we make little sacrifices to save our children a whole world of trouble?

[Henry Bowman]

Originally Posted by Trimac20

I personally think large-scale, draconian measures need to be put in place NOW, even if it smacks of being interventionist.

Ah....you mean not letting a crisis go to waste, right?

In other words, we enact these Draconian measures to save the world and give the government more excuse to seize our liberty and exploit our personal resources in the form of taxes, fees, carbon caps, etc/

You do realize the government is in bed with those supposedly evil corporations that you claim to abhor, right? They are a symbiotic relationship.