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That statistic doesn't prove the women can't do the math - it just proves they don't have the jobs at that one university. It's still hard-wired in asian culture that women stay home and take care of kids if at all possible.
This is just as "hard-wired" in Asian culture as it is in Western culture....(this is not to mention there is no unified "Asian culture"...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4
Every single one of my female (asian) relatives has an advanced science/engineering/architecture degree and either uses it or used it at a high level prior to leaving her career to take care of her kids.
You'll find plenty of women in other departments. If this was about Asian women being stay at home moms then you shouldn't see a dramatic difference between departments, but you do...
The majority of professors don't have children whether male or female.
You do a study at birth, 1, 2, 3, 4 years, etc, before the kids can have society/choice of schools/parents/siblings influence the outcome, and then you can talk real stats with real meaning. By the time you get to the ages you're talking about, there are way too many variables to draw any valid conclusions.
You do a study at birth, 1, 2, 3, 4 years, etc, before the kids can have society/choice of schools/parents/siblings influence the outcome, and then you can talk real stats with real meaning. By the time you get to the ages you're talking about, there are way too many variables to draw any valid conclusions.
Enrollments to high ranking graduate programs show the same results, despite major changes in society since then. Even feminist social engineering projects haven't changed the situation much at all.... Mathematics and mathematics related fields are highly dominated at the high end by men. Very little has changed over the years regarding this fact....despite dramatic changes in society.
If it was just a matter of women not liking Mathematics because its not seen as "girlie" as many seem to suggest, then you'd see the same results on the high and low end of the respective fields. But that isn't what you see at all.
The situation between my husband and I already blows your theory!
Same situation with my daughter and my son.
hahaha silliest comment I've ever read. say you and your daughter are stronger then your husband and son. does this mean men aren't normally stronger? NO
I also haven't noticed a big difference in men and women with the "technical" parts of these subjects. Such as the sort of Mathematics seen in your calculus 1/2 course. As far as my experience with Mathematics (and computer science) things start to change dramatically when the subjects get more theoretical. In both Math and CS this usually happens your Junior year. You go from doing calculations, to trying to prove things about abstractions. The more advanced (and abstract) the courses get the less women you find.
Some sort of difference in the sexes ability to manipulate objects in their head could explain this. Even though you can't really imagine say a topological space you do tend to represent it in your head in some fashion when trying to proof such and such about it.
I'm 50, and when I was in grade school, we still had the "girls are teachers or nurses until they marry and become Moms" thing going on. Give it another 30 years or so before you start believing that one gender or another is inherently "better."
PS - I have graduate degrees in science and engineering, so the lecture back then did not stick very well.
I'm 50, and when I was in grade school, we still had the "girls are teachers or nurses until they marry and become Moms" thing going on. Give it another 30 years or so before you start believing that one gender or another is inherently "better."
Why? Kids weren't given this line when I was growing up yet....nothing has changed from the times where they were.
If it was a social issue you'd expect to see big improvements in the statistics, but you don't.
Are men better in technical matters than women?
I don't think men are better at it than women...I just think they are more interested in technology than the majority of females, therefore more males excel in this area. Much like cooking....more women are better cooks only because more women are interesting in cooking. The minority of males who love cooking are just as good, if not better, than most female cooks.
We do so poorly in technical areas that we need to encourage everyone who is remotely interested to study technical subject. God bless liberal arts majors, but McDonald only needs so many burger flippers.
SCGranny I just read your post from four years ago. I am a woman who is trying to fit into the male dominated world of IT. What you said in your post is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. You hit the nail on the head. I take it you're from South Carolina and the women there pull their own weight. I doubt myself at every turn. Society has caused this. I had a father who had zero patience with me. From childhood I remember him trying to teach me to tell time and treated me like an imbecile. Tying my shoes was another trial and I was berated for it. The more I was yelled at the more I retreated into a shell and lost all confidence. Now at age 50 my brain locks up when trying to learn anything technical. I could just die. I feel I have no place in this world. What an amazing person you and your daughters are. Had I come from that environment maybe things would be different for me today. But at age 50 and having to start over again I can't do it. I am married to a wonderful man who supports me 100% but it's too late. I needed him40 years ago! I'm angry about the gender bias and the boys club in the world of IT. I just don't have the confidence to take the bull by the horns. No one can tell me anything that can change my situation. I feel like it's the end of the line as far as learning anything new at this stage of the game.
I absolutely admire you and you are spot on. I wish you would write a book about this subject. I feel even at this period in time we have gone backwards. Women are exploited in so many ways and the women let it happen without argument. No one fights back. The things I read on the internet! Take Youtube alone for instance. Look at any video that involves a woman doing ANYTHING and then look at the comments. It's nothing but hateful, sexist, downright filthy comments. It's as if women were not even a part of the human race or they just appeared here on earth within the last couple of years and men can't understand what we are.
One last note: oddly enough the suicide rated for men is much higher then that of women. I guess we have been beaten down so much we know how to survive a beating but men don't and when the heat is on they bail???
SCGranny I would love to meet you. I wish you were my relative.
Peace
I am an Engineering graduate. When I was in school, I had a terrible terrible time in certain subjects...Engineering drawing was one of them, and I'm fairly good at drawing. I really had a hard time thinking in 3D..how the heck does a cross section of an engine block look from the top view? Of course, my male classmates breezed through that. Someone told me that it was easier for men to look at technical things spatially...perhaps that is what makes certain things come easier with them. I found that the male engineering students were better in subjects that involved electricity and mechanical things. Men and women were equal in math, computers, business subjects, including the technical part of economics, operations research and such. At least this was my experience in college.
Just as physically we are different I do not see why we cannot be in certain skills that have to do with how our brains developed.
De examples you cite do make sense based on what I have read on article of evolutionary psychology and brain development through the ages.
Examples: Men developed better at looking at things spatialy do to the fact they had to navigate through the jungle and hunt in the early times of civilization. Women, developed better sensitivy skills due to taking care of the babies and learn to recognize the needs of other people to take care of them in so many ways. It had to do more due to circumstances in surviving than for social reasons. Social norms developed more out of life survival than than the other way around in those days. Today we still have kept many of those traits.
As somebody else said it does not make either gender superior, just different in his/her abilities.
Now, Both genders do fall somewhere in the spectrum. There are men that do fall in the side of women regarding traits and women on the other side but the great majority of women on what is views as women traits and men as men traits.
I am not sayin that those that fall on the side of the gender line are necessarily gay or lesbians. I am talking about traits. Take care.
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Of course, my male classmates breezed through that.
Someone told me that it was easier for men to look at technical things spatially...perhaps that is what makes certain things come easier with them. I found that the male engineering students were better in subjects that involved electricity and mechanical things. Men and women were equal in math, computers, business subjects, including the technical part of economics, operations research and such. At least this was my experience in college.
