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Unread 02-01-2009, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 3,046,351 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
ILaw is replaced by "Social Justice" which states if you have what I want then I can take it. Anarchy.
Shizzles, do you, and your "fellow-anarchists" have a symbol for your anarchy movement?
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Unread 02-01-2009, 10:39 PM
 
1,684 posts, read 1,866,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcashley View Post
Shizzles, do you, and your "fellow-anarchists" have a symbol for your anarchy movement?

I think you misread me. I don't support "Anarchy" but simply the rule of law that protects man from the destructive forces of our fallen urges. Communists/Socialists often accuse capitalism as being "Socially Darwinistic" or "Might makes Right", but the same can be said for Commnism. Democracy is the simple act of the majority (Might) setting the tone for everyone (....makes Right).

Inequality is inherent in life. I will always have someone who's richer, stronger, sexier, smarter, healthier than me. Just like there will always be someone below me in those facets as well. But what people don't realize is that we benefit from that inequality. It's because of the genius of Nikola Tesla we can sit here in light and type on computers. It's becuase of Michaelagelo western society rediscovered beauty. It's becuase of MLK that I am free to sit at any lunch counter.

Strong, successful individuals who's benefits trickle down to us all. The current mess today is becuase of little boy metality we have festered in society. We do not have capitalism nor socialism in this country, but cronyism.


Communism is one of man's many attempts to create a utopian paradise of morality. What people don't realize it that no economic/political/social system can replace a basic belief that there is a right and a wrong way to treat your fellow man. People will find a way to cheat, plunder and harm their neighbors just as easily under a collectivst scheme as an anarchist.

Want a better future? Read the Bible..........
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Unread 02-02-2009, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
7,629 posts, read 3,660,968 times
Reputation: 3085
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcashley View Post
Jet, do you really think you are going to develop much of a following of your economic program?
I think you are pretty much alone in your analysis, and your conclusions.
I wish you the best of luck in that regard, but I for one am turning my attention to people who are able to engage in critical thinking.
My goal is not to create a following, but show facts, and encourage thinking instead of mindless compliance with the status quo.

The facts are available in any county courthouse law library. The dollar is a coin, with no less than .77 ounces of silver. A "dollar bill" is a promise to pay a real dollar - at some future date. That Congress repudiated that promise in 1933, is a fact. Since 1933, "dollar bills" became worthless - no par value. The State of Emergency, first declared in 1933, and reinstated by each sitting president is real.

The national debt, over ten trillions, is the law. And by law, it can never be paid. "Dollar bills" can't pay that debt... only gold coin. (Thanks to the "gold standard" and the demonetization of silver in 1870s). And that impossible debt cannot be questioned because of the 14th amendment. Due to the inequity between silver dollars (and fractional coins of silver) and "dollar bills", the Congress debased the fractional coinage in 1965. (Of course, they reduced the penalty for counterfeiting - just in case "we" got wind of their criminal behavior and demanded justice.)

In 2007 and 2008, CONgress borrowed more than it paid in interest on that impossible to pay national debt. In short, old investors are being paid with the money from new investors. Isn't that why Bernie Madoff is going to prison?

But they're safe as long as we volunteer, via participation in Social Security (FICA), to be human resources pledged as collateral on that impossible debt.

And the source of this madness is usury - the fee, in money, for the loan / use of money. It is mathematically impossible to pay in the long term. In the short term it triggers booms and busts, as the inequity between obligations and money supply widen. The economy goes through a painful realignment, a proportion of folks are wiped out, and the usurers resume their predation.

If you have facts that dispute the conclusions, feel free to present them. But if you have no facts, then what?

Is it wise to embrace an ideological concept that is contrary to reason or survival?

The future, based on existing conditions, will not be pleasant. That is inescapable.
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Unread 02-02-2009, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
7,629 posts, read 3,660,968 times
Reputation: 3085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
...the rule of law that protects man from the destructive forces of our fallen urges.
Be careful of the "rule of law".
There are two systems of law in operation, at this time.

TWO LAW SYSTEMS
Law of Love:
1. Harmless action in support of one's right to life (Good)
2. Self sacrifice for the benefit of another. (Greatest Love)
Law of the Jungle:
3. Harmful action in support of one's right to life (Evil)
4. Harmful action for no reason (Worst)


We can easily determine the difference between the two systems of laws.

Those who follow the law of love, support their lives with harmless labor. Those who follow the law of love sacrifice themselves for others.

Those who follow the law of the jungle, support their lives with harmful labor. Those who follow the law of the jungle sacrifice others for themselves.

We often use the terms : good and evil.
And we call evil doers : law breakers.

But that is misleading.

Predators follow the LAW OF THE JUNGLE and thus are abiding by the law. It's just not the same law as harmless producers follow.

Harmless productive people are "good" and harmful predatory people are "bad" only under the Law of Love.

Under the law of the jungle, predators are "good" and prey are "good to eat." Prey who fight back are "bad".

Communists and socialists PREY upon the productive people, and steal their wealth. They do not like the Law of Love. But they are lawful - under the steamy green canopy of their law.

The problem is that you have to make a choice : predator or producer.
And if you choose harmless production, should you tolerate predators?
If you do tolerate predators, is that not unmerciful to their next victims?

Consider the government of a nation: Which law is it following?
When you can answer that, you will better understand "THE LAW".
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Unread 02-02-2009, 11:44 AM
 
1,684 posts, read 1,866,540 times
Reputation: 1797
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Be careful of the "rule of law".
There are two systems of law in operation, at this time.

TWO LAW SYSTEMS
Law of Love:
1. Harmless action in support of one's right to life (Good)
2. Self sacrifice for the benefit of another. (Greatest Love)
Law of the Jungle:
3. Harmful action in support of one's right to life (Evil)
4. Harmful action for no reason (Worst)


We can easily determine the difference between the two systems of laws.

Those who follow the law of love, support their lives with harmless labor. Those who follow the law of love sacrifice themselves for others.

Those who follow the law of the jungle, support their lives with harmful labor. Those who follow the law of the jungle sacrifice others for themselves.

We often use the terms : good and evil.
And we call evil doers : law breakers.

But that is misleading.

Predators follow the LAW OF THE JUNGLE and thus are abiding by the law. It's just not the same law as harmless producers follow.

Harmless productive people are "good" and harmful predatory people are "bad" only under the Law of Love.

Under the law of the jungle, predators are "good" and prey are "good to eat." Prey who fight back are "bad".

Communists and socialists PREY upon the productive people, and steal their wealth. They do not like the Law of Love. But they are lawful - under the steamy green canopy of their law.

The problem is that you have to make a choice : predator or producer.
And if you choose harmless production, should you tolerate predators?
If you do tolerate predators, is that not unmerciful to their next victims?

Consider the government of a nation: Which law is it following?
When you can answer that, you will better understand "THE LAW".
I agree with you. In the end however, it comes down to belief in a higher authority and a right and wrong way to treat people. Societal liberalism states that there is no set standard for how one should live their life and ironically, says that we all should "Share" with those individuals.

IMHO Modern western leftism actually is self-defeating. It encourages individuals to sink to their lowest impluses due to cultural/racial excuses, banning of religon, and diversity of morals/lifestyles....and then expects this society to ban together and share. WTF?

Thousands of years ago, there actually were communtarian societes. But they work becuase they're united by religous/cultural/social/ideological cohesion, which is athema to modern leftisms obsession with "diversity".


America is great becuase anyone from anywhere and come here and live how they see fit. That to me is God's vision. What every American does need to have in common is

1) An understanding of the ideals of this nation
2) A basic, spiritual belief in the laws of consciousness and a moral rejection of the laws of the jungle.
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Unread 02-02-2009, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 3,046,351 times
Reputation: 954
"
Quote:
Dollar bills" can't pay that debt... only gold coi
n.

We are no longer on the gold standard. As a matter of fact, adherrence to the gold standard was one of the causes of the Great Depression. I think there are no other countries on a gold or precious metals standard either.

The 100% reserve standard is generally considered unworkable because the quantity of gold in the world is too small to sustain current worldwide economic activity and the "right" quantity of money (i.e. one that avoids either inflation or deflation) is not a fixed quantity, but varies continuously with the level of commercial activity

In the 19th and early 20th centuries gold played a key role in international monetary transactions. The gold standard was used to back currencies; the international value of currency was determined by its fixed relationship to gold; gold was used to settle international accounts. The gold standard maintained fixed exchange rates that were seen as desirable because they reduced the risk of trading with other countries.
Imbalances in international trade were theoretically rectified automatically by the gold standard. A country with a deficit would have depleted gold reserves and would thus have to reduce its money supply. The resulting fall in demand would reduce imports and the lowering of prices would boost exports; thus the deficit would be rectified. Any country experiencing inflationwould lose gold and therefore would have a decrease in the amount of money available to spend. This decrease in the amount of money would act to reduce the inflationary pressure. Supplementing the use of gold in this period was the British pound. Based on the dominant British economy, the pound became a reserve, transaction, and intervention currency. But the pound was not up to the challenge of serving as the primary world currency, given the weakness of the British economy after the Second World War.

The architects of Bretton Woods had conceived of a system wherein exchange rate stability was a prime goal. Yet, in an era of more activist economic policy, governments did not seriously consider permanently fixed rates on the model of the classical gold standard of the nineteenth century. Gold production was not even sufficient to meet the demands of growing international trade and investment. And a sizeable share of the world's known gold reserves were located in the Soviet Union, which would later emerge as a cold war rival to the United States and Western Europe.

Gold has no inherrent value, as a matter of fact it has only limited uses: Jewlery, Few Computer Components, and dentistry. As such, prior to the 20th century gold was useless--except for jewlery and as a medium of exchange. As a result, gold was nothing more than a form of money. The primary difference is that the sujpply of gold is limited. This limitation caused inherrently deflationary cycles in terms of gold per unit of economic output. These deflationary cycles dramatically limited world economic growth and the per capita income of people accross the globe.

Interestingly, according to the world bank, the rate of extreme poverty fell from 28% in 1991 to 21% in 2001. According to the US Census, in the US poverty dropped from 22.4% in 1959 to 12.3% in 2006.

So...go back to the gold standard? No way.
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Unread 02-02-2009, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 3,046,351 times
Reputation: 954
Oops, I did not mean to infer that leaving the gold standard was the only reason for the reduction in world wide poverty. There are several other reasons--none of which are reallly "news" to economists. However, being off the gold standard is a necessary condition.
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Unread 02-03-2009, 01:35 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
7,629 posts, read 3,660,968 times
Reputation: 3085
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcashley View Post
"n.

We are no longer on the gold standard. As a matter of fact, adherrence to the gold standard was one of the causes of the Great Depression. I think there are no other countries on a gold or precious metals standard either.

The 100% reserve standard is generally considered unworkable because the quantity of gold in the world is too small to sustain current worldwide economic activity and the "right" quantity of money (i.e. one that avoids either inflation or deflation) is not a fixed quantity, but varies continuously with the level of commercial activity

In the 19th and early 20th centuries gold played a key role in international monetary transactions. The gold standard was used to back currencies; the international value of currency was determined by its fixed relationship to gold; gold was used to settle international accounts. The gold standard maintained fixed exchange rates that were seen as desirable because they reduced the risk of trading with other countries.
Imbalances in international trade were theoretically rectified automatically by the gold standard. A country with a deficit would have depleted gold reserves and would thus have to reduce its money supply. The resulting fall in demand would reduce imports and the lowering of prices would boost exports; thus the deficit would be rectified. Any country experiencing inflationwould lose gold and therefore would have a decrease in the amount of money available to spend. This decrease in the amount of money would act to reduce the inflationary pressure. Supplementing the use of gold in this period was the British pound. Based on the dominant British economy, the pound became a reserve, transaction, and intervention currency. But the pound was not up to the challenge of serving as the primary world currency, given the weakness of the British economy after the Second World War.

The architects of Bretton Woods had conceived of a system wherein exchange rate stability was a prime goal. Yet, in an era of more activist economic policy, governments did not seriously consider permanently fixed rates on the model of the classical gold standard of the nineteenth century. Gold production was not even sufficient to meet the demands of growing international trade and investment. And a sizeable share of the world's known gold reserves were located in the Soviet Union, which would later emerge as a cold war rival to the United States and Western Europe.

Gold has no inherrent value, as a matter of fact it has only limited uses: Jewlery, Few Computer Components, and dentistry. As such, prior to the 20th century gold was useless--except for jewlery and as a medium of exchange. As a result, gold was nothing more than a form of money. The primary difference is that the sujpply of gold is limited. This limitation caused inherrently deflationary cycles in terms of gold per unit of economic output. These deflationary cycles dramatically limited world economic growth and the per capita income of people accross the globe.

Interestingly, according to the world bank, the rate of extreme poverty fell from 28% in 1991 to 21% in 2001. According to the US Census, in the US poverty dropped from 22.4% in 1959 to 12.3% in 2006.

So...go back to the gold standard? No way.
It's a common mistake to think that currencies are "backed" by gold (or precious metal).
In American law, real money is defined as precious metal coin.
Money is defined as either real money or certificates of deposit (receipts) of real money.
Notes are promises to pay real money - in the future - and are debt instruments. Notes are never money. Debt cannot pay debt.

You should read the law sometime, you'd be surprised to learn the truth.
TITLE 12,CHAPTER 3,SUBCHAPTER XII,sec. 411. Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption
"Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in LAWFUL MONEY on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank."
"Federal reserve notes are legal tender in absence of objection thereto."
MacLeod v. Hoover (1925) 159 La 244, 105 So. 305
LAWFUL MONEY - "The terms 'lawful money' and 'lawful money of the United States' shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States..."
Title 12 United States Code, Sec. 152.

"Dollars, or units; each to be of the value of a Spanish milled as the same is now current, and to contain three hundred and seventy-one grains and four-sixteenths parts of a grain of pure, or four hundred and sixteen grains of standard, silver."
--- Sec. 9, Coinage Act of 1792, January 1792

According to Title 31 of the U.S. code, a silver dollar complies with the original Coinage Act.
31 USC Sec. 5112. Denominations, specifications, and design of coins
(e)(1) ...weight 31.103 grams;
(e)(4) have inscriptions ... 1 Oz. Fine Silver ... One Dollar
So despite whatever you've been led to believe, the Constitutional money is still the law of the land. The unit dollar was SILVER not gold. The so-called "gold standard" was due to the demonetization of silver in the 1870s. But the political backlash was so bad, that only the Federal government operated under the "gold standard". For example, it paid American workers on the Panama Canal with gold dollars, but paid foreign workers with silver dollars.

Scarce money was a problem in the last quarter of the 19th century, and precipitated the acceptance of the "elastic currency" of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.

But in 1933, Congress ceased redeeming their notes, going bankrupt. The paper currency (dollar bill) has no par value (worthless). That bankruptcy was caused by USURY, and the Federal Reserve Note system. Gold had nothing to do with the bankruptcy. Or perhaps one could say that due to insufficient gold, the Congress could not operate except under reorganization.

When the banks called loans "due on demand", in 1929, and killed easy credit, the virtual money supply shrank - not unlike today. The Great Depression was the result of usury.

The Bretton Woods agreement was capitulation of the United States government to international financial powers. (See Title 22 - international organizations - for more details)

Thanks to almost universal enrollment into Socialist InSecurity *(1935), each enumerated participant is a "contributor" equally liable for the debt, and thus can no longer object to the Federal Reserve Note.

And the original point is that the TEN TRILLION DOLLAR national debt cannot be paid with FRNs (which are obligations to pay dollars). By law, only gold coin (silver being demonetized) can be used to pay the impossible national debt. And thanks to the 14th amendment, the debt cannot be questioned.

Indeed, "The Law is an Ass."
But ignorance of the law does not elevate one to wisdom.
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Unread 02-03-2009, 05:10 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,180 posts, read 4,964,853 times
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Reps to you, jetgraphics. But you have to feel sorry for those who actually learned that stuff in school, and who are simply parroting what they were taught.
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Unread 02-03-2009, 07:09 AM
 
Location: The Woods
14,036 posts, read 12,000,706 times
Reputation: 5509
Article I section 10 of the Constitution says no state shall "make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts."

The supposed growth fiat currency has allowed is only an illusion as, while on paper it looks like there has been considerable economic growth allowed by a larger money supply, the truth is the dollar has lost so much of its value there has in fact been no actual growth over what is possible on a gold standard.
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