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Old 01-03-2009, 02:44 PM
 
1,613 posts, read 1,686,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyMonk View Post
Personally, I do think the black pride of today does have the same seperatism as the white pride of today. I honestly do not see any difference myself. I think that both sides are militant and seperatist.

I would never say that i'm proud to be white myself. But that is just because I just don't think my race is important. I just see myself as an American. I think race is a very superficial thing. I think that in the big picture it is not important at all. But to lots of people in America it is extremely important.

In fact. I think people who use the "N-word" are seperatists in a big way. They create a language that they only use with people of their own race. What isn't seperatist about that?

Well, that is your opinion that both movements are militant and sepratist. From what I have read, not all are.

Race may be a superficial thing because there are so many people in America who judge on race firstand foremost before learning anything else about a person. Maybe those are the people that should be spoken to and their viewpoints challenged. Until that happens, race will always be a superficial thing in America.

You are so right, back in the day people who use the N word were sepratists. They used that word to describe people different from them.

Today, people who use the N word, despite their race are ignorant - nothing sepratist about it, they are just plain uninformed and ignorant.
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Old 01-03-2009, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlhct View Post
Well, that is your opinion that both movements are militant and sepratist. From what I have read, not all are.

Race may be a superficial thing because there are so many people in America who judge on race firstand foremost before learning anything else about a person. Maybe those are the people that should be spoken to and their viewpoints challenged. Until that happens, race will always be a superficial thing in America.

You are so right, back in the day people who use the N word were sepratists. They used that word to describe people different from them.

Today, people who use the N word, despite their race are ignorant - nothing sepratist about it, they are just plain uninformed and ignorant.
Well, maybe that is the problem. You are black therefore you do not see anything wrong with the black movement. Others that are white do not see anything wrong with the white movement. Why is your opinion more valuable than theirs? I think any group that tries to isolate itself apart from everyone else are separatists. The Bible makes no distinction in color, so why should we?
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Old 01-03-2009, 03:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind View Post
Well, maybe that is the problem. You are black therefore you do not see anything wrong with the black movement. Others that are white do not see anything wrong with the white movement. Why is your opinion more valuable than theirs? I think any group that tries to isolate itself apart from everyone else are separatists. The Bible makes no distinction in color, so why should we?
I never said my opinion was more valuable than anyone elses on the subject. The same could be asked of you but I wouldn't because I was under the impression that these threads are about debating the issue.
Again, as I mentioned earlier in discussing the various parades, there is nothing wrong with having a celebration of different cultures that doesn't focus on supemecy. It could actually act as a learning opportunity if people choose to see it that way.
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Old 01-03-2009, 03:14 PM
 
1,115 posts, read 2,081,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlhct View Post
Well, that is your opinion that both movements are militant and sepratist. From what I have read, not all are.

Race may be a superficial thing because there are so many people in America who judge on race firstand foremost before learning anything else about a person. Maybe those are the people that should be spoken to and their viewpoints challenged. Until that happens, race will always be a superficial thing in America.

You are so right, back in the day people who use the N word were sepratists. They used that word to describe people different from them.

Today, people who use the N word, despite their race are ignorant - nothing sepratist about it, they are just plain uninformed and ignorant.
Some black people use the word n-i-g-g-a as part of their vocabulary.

They can only use this word with other black people.

Therefore, they are seperating themselves. It is like they have their own little clan with it's own type on language, and race is the root of it. So it makes it seem like they are really sticking with their own race.

I agree, people who use the word are uninformed and ignorant. But we all cannot deny that it is totally widespread.

I think that the most ridiculous part is that the people who use the word n-i-g-g-a will get angry at a white person for using it. Even though though throw the word around. I find the whole situation illogical and silly.

I heard people using this word all over Asia. Because rappers they heard say it. But then black people get mad at them for saying it. Yet they are simply imitating what they heard black people saying.......

What a bunch of nonsense. It's good to see that lots of people are seeing this as for what it is. Hopefully the enlightenment on this will keep spreading.
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Old 01-03-2009, 03:23 PM
 
1,613 posts, read 1,686,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyMonk View Post
Some black people use the word n-i-g-g-a as part of their vocabulary.

They can only use this word with other black people.

Therefore, they are seperating themselves. It is like they have their own little clan with it's own type on language, and race is the root of it. So it makes it seem like they are really sticking with their own race.

I agree, people who use the word are uninformed and ignorant. But we all cannot deny that it is totally widespread.

I think that the most ridiculous part is that the people who use the word n-i-g-g-a will get angry at a white person for using it. Even though though throw the word around. I find the whole situation illogical and silly.

I heard people using this word all over Asia. Because rappers they heard say it. But then black people get mad at them for saying it. Yet they are simply imitating what they heard black people saying.......

What a bunch of nonsense. It's good to see that lots of people are seeing this as for what it is. Hopefully the enlightenment on this will keep spreading.
Yes. Hopefully the enlightenment will continue.

Also, in terms of enlightenment...Please don't use the word...even hyphenated as you have. I don't use it, and I don't condone its use either.

Thanks.
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Old 01-03-2009, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 1,642,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlhct View Post
I never said my opinion was more valuable than anyone elses on the subject. The same could be asked of you but I wouldn't because I was under the impression that these threads are about debating the issue.
Again, as I mentioned earlier in discussing the various parades, there is nothing wrong with having a celebration of different cultures that doesn't focus on supemecy. It could actually act as a learning opportunity if people choose to see it that way.
You said, "I feel that in terms of the black pride movement, it was created as sort of recognition of the fact that one should be proud despite all of the things that were going on in society. That is not racist."

"In turn, the white pride movement seems to have come from a place of sepratisim and supremecy. Those are 2 distinct differences."

What I am asking is why do you think your opinion stated above is any different than the opinions of others who are trying to achieve the same goal. Seems to me like they are both fighting for the right to survive.


White pride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Defenders of the term claim white pride is equivalent to black pride and similar terms that express no more than ethnic self-affirmation. Some defenders of white pride argue that "the United States government is biased against white people" because it views phrases such as "white pride" as offensive, but not "black pride" and the like.[4] Advocates of white pride argue white people should be recognized as a cohesive and legitimate cultural group, with the right to promote their sociopolitical interests. According to a University of Minnesota study, 77% of white Americans believe "their race has a distinct culture that should be preserved."[5] There are claims that there exists a cultural double standard in which only certain ethnic groups are permitted to openly have pride in their heritage, and that white pride is not inherently racist, being roughly analogous to positions such as black pride or gay pride.[6] Thomas Jackson wrote in racialist magazine American Renaissance that "what would surely be called racism when done by whites is thought to be normal when done by anyone else".[7]

I guess what I am trying to say is that there are people out there that have genuine pride in their race, be it black, white, asian, etc. and everyone deserves to function within their own culture without being called racist, regardless of whether that person or group is the minority or majority. It is not fair to say that a particular group has more right to establish their identity and heritage simply because they are a minority. One day they might be the majority, and the roles will be reversed. If one has a right, they all should have the right.

The current debate involving the "N word" is a perfect example of the double standard evident in society and only goes to show that we still have a long way to go.
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Old 01-03-2009, 03:41 PM
 
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You seem to be whinnig about it because YOU can't say it to be "cool."

I'll tell you why you can't say it:

The "N" word with an "a" is used among Blacks because it's making it their word from the Whites that used to treat them like crap ( the "N" word with the "er"), especially between after Slavery and in the Civil Rights Years. It's like saying, "This is our word to talk to each other!"

When YOU or anyone who is not Black say it to a Black person, you're bringing back the racist word (the "N" with the "er")...to them. Even if you're using the urban term. That "N" word, the real one, is the basterdized version of Niger, which most of the slaves came from. It was used to degrade the slaves for the color of their skin.

Now, does that answer your inqury?
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Old 01-03-2009, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 1,642,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saberai View Post
You seem to be whinnig about it because YOU can't say it to be "cool."

I'll tell you why you can't say it:

The "N" word with an "a" is used among Blacks because it's making it their word from the Whites that used to treat them like crap ( the "N" word with the "er"), especially between after Slavery and in the Civil Rights Years. It's like saying, "This is our word to talk to each other!"

When YOU or anyone who is not Black say it to a Black person, you're bringing back the racist word (the "N" with the "er")...to them. Even if you're using the urban term. That "N" word, the real one, is the basterdized version of Niger, which most of the slaves came from. It was used to degrade the slaves for the color of their skin.

Now, does that answer your inqury?
Please quote who you are talking to. There are many people discussing this issue.
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Old 01-03-2009, 03:45 PM
 
1,613 posts, read 1,686,651 times
Reputation: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind View Post
You said, "I feel that in terms of the black pride movement, it was created as sort of recognition of the fact that one should be proud despite all of the things that were going on in society. That is not racist."

"In turn, the white pride movement seems to have come from a place of sepratisim and supremecy. Those are 2 distinct differences."

What I am asking is why do you think your opinion stated above is any different than the opinions of others who are trying to achieve the same goal. Seems to me like they are both fighting for the right to survive.


White pride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Defenders of the term claim white pride is equivalent to black pride and similar terms that express no more than ethnic self-affirmation. Some defenders of white pride argue that "the United States government is biased against white people" because it views phrases such as "white pride" as offensive, but not "black pride" and the like.[4] Advocates of white pride argue white people should be recognized as a cohesive and legitimate cultural group, with the right to promote their sociopolitical interests. According to a University of Minnesota study, 77% of white Americans believe "their race has a distinct culture that should be preserved."[5] There are claims that there exists a cultural double standard in which only certain ethnic groups are permitted to openly have pride in their heritage, and that white pride is not inherently racist, being roughly analogous to positions such as black pride or gay pride.[6] Thomas Jackson wrote in racialist magazine American Renaissance that "what would surely be called racism when done by whites is thought to be normal when done by anyone else".[7]

I guess what I am trying to say is that there are people out there that have genuine pride in their race, be it black, white, asian, etc. and everyone deserves to function within their own culture without being called racist, regardless of whether that person or group is the minority or majority. It is not fair to say that a particular group has more right to establish their identity and heritage simply because they are a minority. One day they might be the majority, and the roles will be reversed. If one has a right, they all should have the right.
Again, I have never said that anyone did not have the right to be proud of their race. As I have said before, as long as being proud doesn't say that other races should be eliminated or that one race is better than the other then a pride movement is not racist since the definition of racisim ebodies those 2 attributes.

The parades I discussed before are perfect examples. They celebrate the pride of the groups without discussing supremecy. Everyone is encouraged to learn and enjoy the differences.

Also, to address your point about the N word, IMO there is no double standard. Use of it is wrong - no matter who uses it.
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Old 01-03-2009, 04:54 PM
 
603 posts, read 777,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlhct View Post
Again, I have never said that anyone did not have the right to be proud of their race. As I have said before, as long as being proud doesn't say that other races should be eliminated or that one race is better than the other then a pride movement is not racist since the definition of racisim ebodies those 2 attributes.

The parades I discussed before are perfect examples. They celebrate the pride of the groups without discussing supremecy. Everyone is encouraged to learn and enjoy the differences.

Also, to address your point about the N word, IMO there is no double standard. Use of it is wrong - no matter who uses it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind View Post
You said, "I feel that in terms of the black pride movement, it was created as sort of recognition of the fact that one should be proud despite all of the things that were going on in society. That is not racist."

"In turn, the white pride movement seems to have come from a place of sepratisim and supremecy. Those are 2 distinct differences."

What I am asking is why do you think your opinion stated above is any different than the opinions of others who are trying to achieve the same goal. Seems to me like they are both fighting for the right to survive.


White pride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Defenders of the term claim white pride is equivalent to black pride and similar terms that express no more than ethnic self-affirmation. Some defenders of white pride argue that "the United States government is biased against white people" because it views phrases such as "white pride" as offensive, but not "black pride" and the like.[4] Advocates of white pride argue white people should be recognized as a cohesive and legitimate cultural group, with the right to promote their sociopolitical interests. According to a University of Minnesota study, 77% of white Americans believe "their race has a distinct culture that should be preserved."[5] There are claims that there exists a cultural double standard in which only certain ethnic groups are permitted to openly have pride in their heritage, and that white pride is not inherently racist, being roughly analogous to positions such as black pride or gay pride.[6] Thomas Jackson wrote in racialist magazine American Renaissance that "what would surely be called racism when done by whites is thought to be normal when done by anyone else".[7]

I guess what I am trying to say is that there are people out there that have genuine pride in their race, be it black, white, asian, etc. and everyone deserves to function within their own culture without being called racist, regardless of whether that person or group is the minority or majority. It is not fair to say that a particular group has more right to establish their identity and heritage simply because they are a minority. One day they might be the majority, and the roles will be reversed. If one has a right, they all should have the right.

The current debate involving the "N word" is a perfect example of the double standard evident in society and only goes to show that we still have a long way to go.
It's interesting to note the information you did not include from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_pride

Such as the first two sentences:
"White pride is a slogan used primarily in the United States and Canada to agitate for a whiteEuropeanracial identity. It is often closely aligned with white supremacy and white separatism.[2] Organizations advocating white pride are collectively referred to as the white pride movement."

And the following part:
"Opponents of the white pride movement argue that movements such as black pride differ from white pride. Philosopher David Ingram argues that "affirming 'black pride' is not equivalent to affirming 'white pride,' since the former—unlike the latter—is a defensive strategy aimed at rectifying a negative stereotype".[8] By contrast, then, "affirmations of white pride—however thinly cloaked as affirmations of ethnic pride—serve to mask and perpetuate white privilege"

And especially this part:
"The term "white pride" is widely used by groups that are also sometimes called white separatist, white nationalist or white supremacist. Sociologists Betty A. Dobratz and Stephanie L Shanks-Meile state that the slogan White Power! White Pride! is "a much-used chant of white separatist movement supporters".[10]
The slogan "White Pride, World Wide" appears in the logo of Stormfront, a website owned and operated by Don Black, who was formerly a Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan"


I wonder why this information was not included.

I also wonder whyor how the OP hears this 100 times a day. Is this at work? Or with friends? If I hear it, I ask the person to refrain from using it around me. We could start there.

Last edited by Dbledeez; 01-03-2009 at 04:57 PM.. Reason: formatting
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