The "N word"? (generation, serial killers, rating, laws)

[luvmycat]

Originally Posted by moonshadow

So I'm just curious. Of the people saying that only low class and uneducated people use this word are you also referring to Harper Lee and Mark Twain?

Neither of which would appear to have a limited vocabulary or a lack of education or respect for other people. I'd go so far as to say that had either of them NOT written the books they did, OR included this supposedly offensive word, that a great deal more people world wide would not have the understanding they do of African American culture and the hardships they faced.

Mark Twain and Harper Lee used the word generously, but it was a way of holding up the mirror...at the time the books were written, the word was common reference to any black person and used by those who loathed and feared as well as those who actually recognized blacks as people. Both To Kill a Mockingbird and Huckleberry Finn have racist characters, but in both books we see other characters who take the opposite stance. The authors were exposing racism for what it is, not being racist themselves in my opinion, (though there are many who would argue that point, especially where Twain is concerned...) Needless to say, this is an entirely different scenario than today when people use the word out of hate and/or ignorance.

[moonshadow]

Originally Posted by luvmycat

Mark Twain and Harper Lee used the word generously, but it was a way of holding up the mirror...at the time the books were written, the word was common reference to any black person and used by those who loathed and feared as well as those who actually recognized blacks as people. Both To Kill a Mockingbird and Huckleberry Finn have racist characters, but in both books we see other characters who take the opposite stance. The authors were exposing racism for what it is, not being racist themselves in my opinion, (though there are many who would argue that point, especially where Twain is concerned...) Needless to say, this is an entirely different scenario than today when people use the word out of hate and/or ignorance.

So you're saying that people didn't use the word out of hate or ignorance back then or that anybody that uses it now must only be using it for hate and/or in ignorance?

Because I'm not buying that sorry.

There will always be ignorant people, there will always be hatred and there will always be words. Banning words or getting so caught up in political correctness that some words are only allowed to be spoken or written by some and not others simply divides people further.

Had either of these authors and their words been banned what an expensive price to pay because by using that word and holding up the mirror as you put it, they educated many people about injustice.

It is a word, which has no meaning other than that which you place upon it. Hiding it or forbidding it or attributing attitudes or ideals onto the people that use it is far more dangerous than accepting its existence and discussing it as far as I can see. By all means push it underground and dismiss those who might use it with heinous personality flaws, say it's ok for some to use it and not others but the underlying issues will not go away they are more likely to gather momentum, add resentment and create more problems.

[Hoarfrost]

Originally Posted by Hinton Bound

Because it's a fact that they do?

Really? Care to elaborate on the theory behind this fact? I'm quite interested in it.

You know what the most racist thing of all is? The assumption that you would be assaulted by a Black person for saying it. As if we're all just marauding maniacs looking for an offender to pounce on.

[FunkyMonk]

I hear what you are saying. But in todays society, many black people use this word in every day language. Yet non-black people are forbidden to use this word and will get beat up for using it. That's the thing about it that I find absurd.

If this word was not used all the time by black people, if this word was dead, then I would understand why they should get mad at a white person for saying it. But instead, black people use this word all the time to this day.

In the Bay Area, Southern Cali, Denver, Vegas, Atlanta, I hear this word all over. People are even saying it in foreign countries now. When I was in Asia, the Asian people were using this word because they heard it in rap songs.

So i'm not allowed to say this word. And it's OK to beat me up for saying it. Yet this word is being spread across the whole world through music, by black people, who do not want non-black people to say it????

You see the nonsense here right?

If i'm gonna get beaten up by someone for using this word and it is so offensive, why is it okay for them to go and say it themselves?

And this illustrates a lot of bigger issues in my opinion. I think that many black people in America have a sort of militant anger, and everyone just thinks that it is OK, because they have been persecuted in the past. So they deserve to feel that way.

And many white people are scared and timid about racial issues. They constantly try to act totally open-minded and politically correct and enlightened, because otherwise they will get called ignorant, or a racist. So they can't even really talk about racial issues at all. It's just too dangerous of a topic to talk about.

So, everyone is putting themself in a little box. Putting themself in a little cage about what is ok, and not ok to say. Even though these are all just imaginary boundaries.

Back in the days of Mark Twain. The word was used by everyone. But that was a different time. And as a society, we have progressed beyond a lot of the ignorance of that time. But I think that we still have a lot of work to do. A lot of ignorance remains, because America is too politically correct to face these issues straight up.

There are lots and lots of complex, unwritten rules about race in the US. I want to see all the BS about it get taken away. So that we can just have real equality instead of holding everyone back and repressing all these issues.

[Hoarfrost]

Sigh, the voice of reason is a very quiet one.

[trishguard]

Originally Posted by FunkyMonk

I want to talk about a word. A word that lots of us hear every day. A word that, if spoken by many of us, would be a one way ticket to a beating and hospitalization.

I'm talking about the dreaded word......... "*****".

I am a white guy. I used to have a typical view of the word. I saw it as offensive and ignorant. But I figured it was OK for a black person to use it because of it's history. And that's just how society sees it too.

Lately though, i'm seeing it differently. I think it is a stupid word for anyone to say. I think that if black people are going to say it, then why can't a White, Latino, Asian, or anyone else say it?

When I think about it, I don't think there are any other words like that out there, that some people say all the time, and others should not say. White people don't call each other "cracker". Latinos don't call each other "beaner", Asians don't call each other "chopstick", etc.

So why this???

In my neighborhood I hear people saying it ALL the time. I hear the word a hundred times a day. The world is permanently embedded into my brain. Yet if I say it, that makes me a racist? Am I the only person who finds the whole thing silly, hypocritical, illogical?

When you really take a few steps back and look at it, isn't it pretty stupid?

So I say, we should ALL say the word, or, we should ALL let this word dissapear into the history books. Yeah, it's idealistic, but that's how I see it.

I am black and I don't use the word. In fact, I can't think of a person in my family who uses it. But if you want to use it go ahead, knock yourself out.

[FunkyMonk]

Originally Posted by trishguard

I am black and I don't use the word. In fact, I can't think of a person in my family who uses it. But if you want to use it go ahead, knock yourself out.

I never use it. But I hear it all day every day.

[Hinton Bound]

Originally Posted by Hoarfrost

Really? Care to elaborate on the theory behind this fact? I'm quite interested in it.

The theory to the fact that blacks say the word n-i-g-g-e-r? Are you trying to say they don't? Maybe YOU don't use it, but that is hardly an argument to say it's not said everyday- and accepted when said by a black.

Originally Posted by Hoarfrost

You know what the most racist thing of all is? The assumption that you would be assaulted by a Black person for saying it. As if we're all just marauding maniacs looking for an offender to pounce on.

Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton have made millions of dollars doing just that. Didn't take long to pounce on Imus for saying "nappy-headed ho", yet barely a peep when Jesse called Barrack a ni**er on national TV. No Hoar, that is the most racist thing of all.

[luvmycat]

Originally Posted by moonshadow

So you're saying that people didn't use the word out of hate or ignorance back then or that anybody that uses it now must only be using it for hate and/or in ignorance?
No, I was trying to point out the opposite, in fact...people back then used the word regardless of how they felt or did not feel about the race because it was considered to be an acceptable reference. Today the word gets thrown around, making light of something very sinister and dark: treating human beings like property is no joking matter IMO, and yes, I think it very ignorant to perpetuate the idea that what happened was okay by using a word that is incredibly hurtful for so many because of what it represents and/or makes one remember.
Because I'm not buying that sorry.

There will always be ignorant people, there will always be hatred and there will always be words. Banning words or getting so caught up in political correctness that some words are only allowed to be spoken or written by some and not others simply divides people further.
I never said words should be banned, I clearly stated in my first post here that I do not believe in censorship, and the idea of killing a word is fruitless. I also never said it is okay for some and not for others...maybe you are talking to someone else here???
Had either of these authors and their words been banned what an expensive price to pay because by using that word and holding up the mirror as you put it, they educated many people about injustice.
I agree with this point, as I have already said...
It is a word, which has no meaning other than that which you place upon it. Hiding it or forbidding it or attributing attitudes or ideals onto the people that use it is far more dangerous than accepting its existence and discussing it as far as I can see. By all means push it underground and dismiss those who might use it with heinous personality flaws, say it's ok for some to use it and not others but the underlying issues will not go away they are more likely to gather momentum, add resentment and create more problems.

Here I disagree. This word has powerful meaning and poison loaded inside for many, regardless of what meaning or indifference it has in YOUR life. Just because you are not offended by it does not mean the person you speak it to will feel the same. If rising against political correctness is so important to you that you do not mind hurting people along the way, that is your cross to bear. If you believe you are not hurting anyone by using words that may or may not strike a very painful chord in others, then that, my friend, is ignorance at its finest.

[Rathagos]

I don't know. Hesitant to chime in here because of the overall sensitivity of the topic, but I guess it's Great Debates and we're supposed to be above the simple superficialness of drawing out the over-simplified semantics. So... here's my input.

I don't condone the use of the word in any context by black or white today. Yes, I understand that a word is just a word, and the American flag is also just a piece of cloth, so burning it shouldn't be a big deal. Yet, it still is to me. Why? Because of symbology. And so, it's also true with the "N" word.

I see one primary difference, however, in the usage between blacks and whites. When blacks use the word, it's in reference to each other, as a recognition of either being black, or being socially accepted into a specific demographic (when I was raised in the projects of San Fran, I went to a predominantly black school, and I, myself, was occasionally called the "N" word by my black friends, even though I'm white). Again, not saying it's "right" or "wrong", it's simply what happened. But, also, this was a long time ago (70's).

However, when a white person uses the word (and I can honestly say I haven't heard anyone use the word in quite a long time), it was against a specific negative stereotype. The "ghetto" black, or the gangster type. Anyone who was perceived as counter-society. I never heard the word used for a professional black person or someone who was "mainstream," although I'm not naive enough to think it doesn't happens in certain social circles.

So, the difference lies in the implied meaning. I still don't agree with any color or sex of person using it (the same way I'm against using any negative stereotyping word). But I do see a difference in the way it's used.