Some ask why I carry a gun in Vermont, here's an example why... (9/11, concealed carry)

[reindeerlady]

Originally Posted by ex-springfielder

Seems as though one of our gun toting compadries has a serious anger issue, I'm sure we Vermonters sllep better at night with him guarding our safety, I hope someone doesn't accidently cut him off in the Walmart parking lot. Long live the NRA and citizen militias.

Um, are you really a Vermonter? I agree with ex-pat. and if he/she sounds angry, well there might be a good reason for it. Probably just recently had to endure a trip to Williston or Burlington! We are looking to move from our beloved state because we are getting very tired of being tailgated, given the finger to, treated rudely in the shops, and seeing our taxes go up all because of out-of-staters loving our state to death. Vermont has become the classic example of people coming here because they love it's quaintness, then wanting every convenience of where they came from. It's not a case of how Vermont should bend to accommodate newcomers, but how newcomers should learn manners before they move here! I come from a very small town in the Northeast Kingdom, where if you so much as forgot to open a door for another person, you were in for trouble with your parents. Mouthing off to your elders was almost unheard of. Now? It's getting scary, and you lock your doors. I'm not saying all crime is coming in from out of state, but the majority is, and stems largely from a very different view of what is ok and what is not, behavior-wise. Don't even get me started on work ethic. And just because the license plate is a Vermont one, doesn't mean the driver is a Vermonter. I'm not talking being a "generations-here" snob, just the general attitude of respect for your neighbors and general friendliness as a rule. I know darn well that the driver of the LandRover that was tailgating me on Ferry Road the other day was no real Vermonter!
I own two guns, and have a very healthy respect for how dangerous they can be. I am training how to use them tho, for several reasons. My husband is a life-long member of the NRA, and he isn't an angry spouting person by a long shot. He is kind and gentle - and an extremely knowledgeable gunsmith, and a great shot. We currently live in a small town that unfortunately is in the direct drug line from Canada to Burlington and beyond. Crime is rising - directly drug related. Woe be to the thug that ever thinks this little old lady is defenseless - turns out I'm a pretty good shot! I used to hate guns and wanted them all banned. Since meeting my DH, I've learned how slanted our media is, and how looking at all the sides of an issue is important. I still fear and respect guns, and I hope I always do. Gun laws are a thorny issue for those who are afraid of angry people with guns, but ask yourself what ex-pat asked - would you rather have all your rights slowly eroded before your eyes? It's happening, and our newly-elected president is mulling over beginning the frog-boiling soon...

[SCGranny]

Alll my life I was raised with and have been around guns. I carry. I started carrying because Late one night, en route to pick my hubby up from work, a car full of males tried to run me off the road - repeatedly riding my back bumper, pulling up to go around me, trying to sideswipe me, then pulling in front of me to slam on brakes, then letting me pass them and doing it all over again.. They did this for seven miles - no cop in sight. The next day I went and picked up a Lady S&W .38 with hollow-points.

Three weeks later I was driving back from dropping hubby off at work, early AM just as the sun came up. 4 men in a convertible, screaming and making gestures, tried the same thing as before - only this time I had my pistol. Out she came, and I pointed her at them. They blanched and made the fastest u-turn in history. I never had to fire it. She has saved my life since - and again was not fired. I traveled a lot around the country on business, and you never know just how fast the situation will decline to the point where you need to defend yourself; in a restaurant, in a store, or even standing at your motel door - and I'm not talking about places in the 'hood, either.

Let me make the point that I am not a young, cute little female, as one of my friends was who was attacked in a parking lot and would have had her purse stolen by an armed gunman had she not screamed, thrown her hands over her head, and turned and ran back toward the store where there were Christmas shoppers. The criminal was later shot and killed as he threatened a deputy after being chased to a standstill. The news media released my friend's name, and the criminal's family had to have a restraining order taken out against them, because they harassed that little girl for "calling the police instead of giving Uncle Bob her money". The cop who shot him had been pistol-whipped by the criminal but survived... but he too came under harassment by the family of the dead criminal. They actually went on TV talking about Uncle Bob (who had a looooong history of criminal violence and incarceration) as 'just wanting to get Christmas money for his kids'.

Maybe you don't have a lot of methheads, crackheads, drunks, and stupid families living around you, who think that it is their right to take what other people have for their own pleasure - any way they can. But maybe you do. I have found such lowlifes everywhere, and the best defense is a good offense. If they see the gun, they dimly realize that someone might shoot back - and either charge forward (at which point you ether act or don't) or back down. Would I shoot? Betcherazz. Would my sons or daughter shoot, and do they all carry? Betcherazz.

It might be great fun, and very comforting, for you to pretend that the criminals are scared off by the cops, the laws, cans of mace, gated communities with rent-a-cops patrolling, and all of the other wonderful safety measures that you may - or may not - actually have, including Homeland Security. But the truth is that when a criminal wants something, he will take it - and you standing in the way, or even standing nearby, are just an unimportant barrier to his wants. And another truth is that some criminals just like to intimidate, terrify, and overpower others for the fun of it.

My daughter's slogan is "I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy". Mine is, "When seconds count, the police are just minutes away!" (She really is tall and beautiful - and mean as a cornered wildcat, with 6 years of self-defense training under her belt as well.) Now that I have moved from the rural South to the rural West, where everyone carries and there is no crime (and no cop for miles unless Rusty is off-duty and home), I am very comfortable and feel very safe - but I still carry. Because you can't predict when someone is going to decide to make you a target, or when the store you entered 10 minutes before to shop is going to be invaded by someone who wants what he wants and is willing to do anything to get it. I'll shoot a rattler whether he slithers on the ground or walks on two legs.

[Asheville Native]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Armed robbery in Rutland at Rite Aid:

Police probe robbery at Rite Aid: Rutland Herald Online

Originally Posted by article

No one inside the store was injured, police said.

So you want to pull your gun and start a gun battle in a drug store occupied by innocent bystanders?

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by BrumusO2

Can you please post the link / info showing U.S. gun deaths are not off the charts compared with other industrialized nations?

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GunCite-Gun Control-International Homicide and Suicide Rates

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by Asheville Native

So you want to pull your gun and start a gun battle in a drug store occupied by innocent bystanders?

So you're saying you trust armed criminals to not shoot anyone while they commit a crime like that? You don't recall that armed robbery in FL where the robbers shot people jus tto "up the body count" in their words?

[expatvermonter]

Angry... Of course I am! Am I going to have a gun fight b/c someone cut me off at Walmart, no way. I have had a gun pulled on me in the North End while delivering on the job. Did I shoot someone? NO! Scared them away though. This is not a "I hate all flatlanders" rave. I can safely say I speak for most Vermonters.... If you want to come to Vermont from WHEREVER, you ARE welcome. You have come b/c of the scenery.... then don't build a 5 bedrrom vinyl sided house on Spear St. You come b/c it is safe.... Then by all means welcome all who want to behave like civilized humans, GANG BANGING IS NOT DIVERSITY! You come b/c you like the polite people.... Then BE polite! Vermont is not a "brand" to be sold, it is a way of life. Thriftiness.... not hummers. A respect for others..... not forcing Vermonters to change to fit into YOUR "culture". This is a "live and let live" state. That does not mean allowing hard core ex-felons move here and take over, selling drugs and violence to our children. Move here, enjoy it, and assimilate to the Vermont way of life. If you don't Vermont will just become another NJ or MA suburb in the next few years. Tak a good look at Manchester, NH and that is the future of Vermont. On the gun thing, Vermont is not a "Gun Culture". Yes many Vermonter own guns, mainly hunting rifles. The way things are going I think they should carry more handguns. I am for a Vermont license-to-carry system similar to PA. Why? It insures I will never loose my right-to-carry, and the AG can negotiate reciprocity. My non resident PA & NH licenses give me 24 states! Guess what, NJ, MA, and NY are not among them... Big surprise! I don't think nut cases or criminals should be allowed to carry in public. Have a system that is inexpensive (PA is $26 for 5 years). Easy to get... I walked into the PA sheriff and picked it up after an "insta check" and filling out a form, or you can do it by mail. Most Vermonters are "middle of the road" and for things that make sense. Bans on ownership and carrying make no sense. Over regulating things don't either. Common sense laws for this day and age do!

Want to get multi state carry CHEAP? Follow the instructions on this link to the Centre County Sheriff.... Just enclose a note that Vermont does not have a licensing provision with your app so they will not require you to show a home state permit. This is an easy and cheap permit to get. No fingerprints just a copy of your Drivers License. New Hampshire is cheap and easy too. PA takes 2 weeks by mail, NH about a month plus>

Centre County Government: Sheriff: License to Carry Firearm Application (http://www.co.centre.pa.us/sheriff/license_application.asp - broken link)

If you want New Hampshire you need to get PA first and mail a copy to NH with your app, otherwise you need a letter that you are a "good citizen" from YOUR local Vermont police department>

http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/nhsp/ssb/permitslicensing/documents/dssp260.pdf (broken link)

There are many states that issue Non-Res like Florida, but they are EXPENSIVE $100+ plus training and fingerprints.

Reciprocity Link: Handgunlaw.us

[ex-springfielder]

I was born and raised in vermont and lived there for almost sixty years, I moved to Maine last year but still have much family in vermont and go back often. I started hunting when I was eight years old with my dad and still hunt and own guns, the original post was about why someone in vermont felt the need to carry a gun, I believe he referanced a drug store robbery. My point is that the chance of being robbed on the streets of Vermont are slim in comparison to chance of an accident by some gun toting lunatic looking for a chance to use it. I have nothing against guns or someone using one to protect themselves but if you're so paranoid you think everytime you leave your house in Vermont you need to go armed I disagree. If you live in Miami or LA that might be different but in Vermont we never locked our doors and seldom locked our cars. Police are no different from average citizens, give many of them a badge and a gun and the power goes to their heads but that's still better then gunfights on main street at noon. You can cry about constitutional rights and loosing your rights but society will never let private citizens be armed with the weapons some on here claim is their birth right and for good reason. One person claims he should be able to buy a tank or a nuclear bomb according to the constitution, thankfully society as a whole is saner then that. I'm not going to change anyone's mind on here and I know that the paranoids carrying guns into the grocery store are a minute portion of the population regardless of their claims. I think it was just a couple months ago a father brought his eight year old son to a gun show and allowed him to shoot a fully automatic machine gun, the child couldn't handle the recoil and ended up shooting himself in the head, I wonder what that father feels about it now. Or Plaxico Burress, the Giants receiver who shot himself in the leg...well maybe that one was okay.

[expatvermonter]

SCGranny. Glad Nebraska finally got Right-2-carry! Too bad they honor PA or NH yet. I have to unload and lock in the trunk until I get to Wyoming )

[expatvermonter]

Ex-Springfielder. Like I said Vermont is about common sense laws. Do I carry on Church Street at 10 AM? No. Do I carry when I make a delivery on N. Winooski at 2 AM, Yes. Laws can't make poeple "smart", but the stupid people do ruin it for the rest of us! Vermont used to be a common sense state with very few shootings accidental or otherwise. Thats b/c children would get an "ass whooping" if they messed with dad's guns. They were taught respect. Now they respect Ice T and his wonderful hit "copkiller", 2 Live Crew and other such great examples of society. I don't have kids, but if I did my handgun would be locked up if not on my person. My kids would also be taught what is right and wrong. I feel sorry for those who don't have that opportunity or upbringing for various socio-economic reasons. Just don't take away my right to protect myself b/c of the actions of a few idiots!

[subsound]

It seems like the people committing the crimes are turning into the new victims. Victim of a bad home life, poverty, and/or drugs....and people defending themselves against them are grilled to the third degree on violating the perpetrators rights. Criminals know the consequences and chose to violate their victims rights, and in choosing so it's their own fault what happens to them. If they pull a knife or gun on a cop and get shot, there should be no reason allowing anyone should be able to sue (not endorsing brutality, but cops are here to protect themselves and others). If they didn't want to get shot, they should not have put themselves in the situation in the first place...you don't step in front of a car without expecting to get run down, don't hold some one at knife point and not expect one eventually to have a gun or be near a cop.

I am all for trained and well reasoned people carrying concealed weapons, and using them if the situation warrants it. Vermont doesn't have a bunch of crime, but once is enough that if some one gets jittery or scared they can start doing stupid things.