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Old 01-02-2009, 09:33 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,472,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flu189 View Post
Unfortunately this can be very true. While it is important to understand the law it nonetheless from a laymans perspective can be very confusing. It's also important to understand that no matter on how right you are some DAs, especially elected ones with constituent issues or agendas, may very well charge you. Even a so called justifiable clean shoot can be clouded over by legal eagles, but it still is better to be tried by six versus carried by six. Overall, it's a judgement issue and for those that are honest enough to admit that they are not comfortable to assume such a burden I respect that, just don't advocate that others should follow suit.
oh i like the idea of you shooting bad guys esp since you understand the legal issues involved. gosh knows they need it. who i am worried about
are all the CDF guys with a gun in the night stand watching lethal force on TV who think it is a documentary.
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Old 01-03-2009, 11:04 AM
 
2,143 posts, read 7,052,003 times
Reputation: 1136
Quote:
Originally Posted by quickdraw View Post
Here's my observation. Most of the people I know who carry guns are pretty much idiots. I'm not saying everyone who carries a gun is the lower IQ type, just most of them.

I don't know anyone who has ever thwarted a robber or mugger with a gun.
I have.

I wouldn't leave my house without a gun.
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Old 01-03-2009, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Burlington Vermont
37 posts, read 79,334 times
Reputation: 13
My apologies to EdKop if I misquoted him, I thought I had cut and pasted his text directly. I didn't make my question clear however. I'd expect law enforcement officers to be in situations where you would need in gun while working. What situations when as an off-duty officer or common citizen have you found you've needed to use a gun?

As officers, have you seen more citizens saved or injured by citizens carrying guns for the purpose of protection? While on duty have you been in situations where you appreciated a citizen using a gun to thwart a violent act?

The Dartmouth case is famous for its uniqueness. It is also not quite the situation I'm talking about. The kids planned out their robbery and murder, knocking on doors earlier in the week pretending to be taking surveys while casing homes. They had decided up front that they were going to kill someone. One of them said he wanted to know what it felt like. My guess that since that event, many more people have injured themselves, friends, or family with guns they've owned in their homes than have saved by owning those guns.

But you're confusing the situations I asking about. I'm completely okay with folks having guns at home for protection. I'm talking about taking a gun out into public or into a public facility like RiteAid b/c you think you need to protect yourself. For the current and former law enforcers, you would recommend citizens carrying guns around in public on the chance they'll be in a situation they'll need to use it? A situation where the chances are minimal they are not going to hurt innocent people. You don't think those guns are going to get mis-used much more often? The only time a gun has been pulled on me, it was over a drink outside of a bar! I'm guessing the guy carried a gun to protect himself; he decided to use it for much less important reasons.
I had a student back when I taught college who told me a story. He and his kid were in their car, and someone cut them off almost causing an accident. At the red light my student got out of his car to confront the idiot driver who was in front of him. He pounded on the guys hood, etc. I tokd my student that sounded kind of like a dumb reaction, what if the driver went after him or his kid. "It was alright he said, I had a gun." I asked him why he carried a gun, and he replied to protect his family. He was ready to use it over an arguement about poor driving skills.

I was confronted once by two guys looking for a fight. When one tried to circle behind my back, I slugged him in the face, told the other guy to "come on," realized I was about to get my ass kicked when the first guy got back up, and ran away. I was protecting myself. I'm glad I was not carrying a gun cuz one or both of them, and perhaps myself, would have been really hurt or killed. I didn't need a gun but may very well have used it.

I feel comfortable with ex-officers carrying guns, I assume they have been trained not only how to use it but when to use it. However, I think there are too many yahoos out there, carrying a gun for protection, but who would use it in less than life threatening situations.
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Old 01-03-2009, 12:07 PM
 
706 posts, read 1,313,709 times
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Since when do you need a reason to carry a gun?
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Old 01-03-2009, 03:50 PM
 
894 posts, read 1,244,148 times
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The idea that some folks are intellectually above violence is silly. How does that work? Folks should read the book on the Zantop/Dartmouth murders.
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:04 PM
 
2,143 posts, read 7,052,003 times
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The question I hear is "Do you really think you need a gun to go to the store?"

I answer" If I thought I needed a gun, I wouldn't go there."
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:07 PM
 
2,143 posts, read 7,052,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picante View Post
You don't think those guns are going to get mis-used much more often?.
Absolutely not. I've carried in Vermont for years, as do many people. Heard of any problems or misuse?

Look at the states where people are forced to get permits to carry, like Florida. Ever hear of problems or misuse? Never.

Criminals misuse guns. Criminals by definition do not follow the law. The criminals are the ones to worry about.
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Old 01-04-2009, 10:42 AM
 
Location: hinesburg, vt
1,574 posts, read 4,347,031 times
Reputation: 395
I can say from my LE experience I personally never handled a call where a citizen in error shot someone or in a crisis moment injured themselves with a firearm. I have seen the scenario of "accidental discharge" such as putting a round through the ceiling or wall because someone handling a firearm did not follow the tenet of firearms safety namely treat all firearms as if there are loaded at all times and never point the muzzle at anything unless you intend to destroy it. Some people argue that firearms will promote a higher suicide rate. Where I worked firearms were everywhere, yet well over half the suicides I was involved with involved hanging, overdose, and carbon monoxide poisoning despite the fact that many victims had ready access to a firearm. I have seen cases where people either seriously injured or killed where if they had access to a firearm it may have saved them. I have seen numerous incidents where when it became apparent that the intended victim was armed the perp fled rather than engage the victim. No hard and fast rules or formulas, but the fact will alway remain that firearms will always be available in sufficient quantity to those who intend to commit crimes and use violence to achieve their ends, hence no amount of good intentioned gun control will solve that. Should an average person shove an automatic rifle under the seat of their car for protection? Not at all as I agree that certain classes of firearms far exceed the practical purpose of protection. Have I encountered gang bangers who "rolled" with such weapons? You bet, and despite laws on the books it has always amazed me on how charges and penalties get diluted at the end. As far as some folks wishing to carry while even running an errand to the store it's up to them. You will never know when a benign situation can turn nasty. Also, it's worth noting that in the event of even a physical attack most people do not have the energy, agility, or experience to engage in hand to hand, especially with multiple assailants. I have seen the aftermath of people beaten to death and it's not pretty. Like I have said before, one of the great features of living in Vermont is the high degree of relative safety we enjoy here, but life experience has taught me you cannot permanently be in what is termed "condition white" because bad things can happen to good people anywhere.
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:23 AM
 
469 posts, read 1,459,124 times
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My theory is if you don't like freedom and like cops breathing down your throat, then move out of Vermont. If you like freedom, safest state, and very non-restrictive gun laws, stay in Vermont.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:27 PM
 
894 posts, read 1,244,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NowOrNever View Post
My theory is if you don't like freedom and like cops breathing down your throat, then move out of Vermont. If you like freedom, safest state, and very non-restrictive gun laws, stay in Vermont.
Yes and no. The gun laws are great here, but don't let that fool you VT is a police state without a lot of police. Lot and lots of laws against all sorts of things in VT. Gun rights are in the state Constitution and have remained untouched because of that.
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