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Old 01-15-2009, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Florida
127 posts, read 327,425 times
Reputation: 350

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-springfielder View Post
I'm wondering, in the middle of the summer when you're wearing shorts and a tee shirt where do you hide the gun you're packing and when was the last time anyone on here had to use the gun they were packing to protect themselves?
Cases of people actually having to use a firearm are pretty rare but that doesn't mean a person shouldn't carry one if they choose to (and they have the proper training and mindset). It's similar to car insurance. We don't buy car insurance becase we plan on t-boning a busload of nuns. But, in the event we do find ourselves in that position, we can fall back on the insurance. Being in a grocery store that's being shot up by a deranged thug is the wrong place to decide that you want to take a firearms class.

If you want to read an interesting article on self defense/human behavior, read On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs by Lt Colonel Dave Grossman. Some of his stuff is a little over the top, but I agree with almost everything he talks about. I have also witnessed the behaviors that he describes. Here is a link:

On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs
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Old 01-15-2009, 06:42 PM
 
2,143 posts, read 7,054,941 times
Reputation: 1136
Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-springfielder View Post
I'm wondering, in the middle of the summer when you're wearing shorts and a tee shirt where do you hide the gun you're packing and when was the last time anyone on here had to use the gun they were packing to protect themselves?
It's very easy. You can have an inside the waistband holster, a belly band, or just stick a gun in your pocket.

Carrying a firearm for self defense is no problem in shorts and a t-shirt.
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Old 01-16-2009, 04:53 AM
 
159 posts, read 341,590 times
Reputation: 163
"Cases of people actually having to use a firearm are rare" exactly my point, there are many more cases where someone actually shot themselves or someone standing by them or of some child getting hold of the gun and shooting themselves. Someone carrying a gun is expecting trouble if not looking for it. I remember a case years ago of a bar owner in Rutland shooting a teenager outside his house who had broken into his garage to steal some beer. The bar owner wasn't endangered by the teenagers who were running away but he claimed he thought he was, or was he just so angry that he couldn't control himself, he was found innocent of any wrong doing in the shooting but lost his bar because people wouldn't go there anymore and it's not something I'd want on my conscience. I can only hope that you gun packers stay far away from me so I don't accidently get shot by some paranoid schizophrenic or someone with an anger managment issue. Vermont does have very lenient gun laws but fortunately that's not something it's noted for.
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Old 01-16-2009, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,398,980 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-springfielder View Post
I can only hope that you gun packers stay far away from me so I don't accidently get shot by some paranoid schizophrenic or someone with an anger managment issue. Vermont does have very lenient gun laws but fortunately that's not something it's noted for.
It's unfortunate that citizens have to be prepared to defend themselves at a moments notice. Some carry mace. Some now carry Tasers. Others, firearms. People are attacked on the street, in a Mall, in their homes. Others, while they are traveling or recreating (for instance camping off the beaten path)

My wife carries a handgun with her (and she really knows how to use it although I hope she never will). I carry a handgun (concealed). I have had the occasion to have to use my weapon in my home to defend my family and myself.

You may be at a mall walking next to someone carrying a concealed weapon - and never know it.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:59 AM
 
159 posts, read 341,590 times
Reputation: 163
Maybe all the gun toters should move to Texas or Florida where they might actually have cause to pull their gun out, why waste their time in one of the safest states in the country? You're in more danger driving on the road so do you drive a tank? I personally know of many times when hunters fired their guns accidently, one fellow I worked with shot a hole in the windshield of the jeep he was riding in, a teacher I had shot the radiator in his car, these were people out hunting not walking around a mall full of old people and children. There was a recent shooting in chester Vt where a bunch of young people met to fight and a couple brought guns, one guy ended up dead, from what I read shot in the back as he tried to crawl away. Now the shooter is facing prison time, it was a good thing he went looking for a fight and brought his gun along instead of just staying away or calling the police. As I said people who look for trouble usually find it and there's no sanity or intelligence test given in vermont for someone to buy a gun, or carry one.
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:14 AM
 
2,143 posts, read 7,054,941 times
Reputation: 1136
Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-springfielder View Post
Maybe all the gun toters should move to Texas or Florida where they might actually have cause to pull their gun out, why waste their time in one of the safest states in the country? ..... As I said people who look for trouble usually find it and there's no sanity or intelligence test given in Vermont for someone to buy a gun, or carry one.
Why would you go somewhere you know you needed a gun? That is nonsensical.

Time and again, the mantra of the anti-gun lobby is that anyone that owns a gun will likely shoot themselves or a family member instead of stopping a crime. Time and again that has been shown to be a fals statement.

Guns are used millions of times each year to prevent crime, and those guns are very rarely fired.

No one is suggesting that if you don't want a gun you should get one, but if you do want one, that is certainly your right.

I wouldn't walk out the front door without a gun, and most of my friends feel the same way. And I'll bet you've been around plenty of people that are carrying guns and didn't have a clue. You simply can't tell.
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:16 AM
 
2,143 posts, read 7,054,941 times
Reputation: 1136
Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-springfielder View Post
Now the shooter is facing prison time, it was a good thing he went looking for a fight and brought his gun along instead of just staying away or calling the police.
Are you blaming someone for their criminal actions, or are you blaming an inanimate object for this crime?

Are you saying that all guns should be banned?
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:44 AM
 
159 posts, read 341,590 times
Reputation: 163
I never said all guns should be banned, I own several myself which are weapons for hunting and if needed could be used to protect my home, I'm simply stating that your odds of running into a situation outside of your home in vermont that would require the use of a gun are are much less then your chance of accidently shooting yourself or someone else. Carrying a loaded gun everywhere you go just because you can is beyond ridiculous and won't even describe what I think of crowing about it. Lilybeans is right, guns don't kill people, people kill people, guns just make it so much easier and efficient than say beating someone over the head with a rock, but when was the last time a child killed themselves by picking up a rock.
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:56 AM
 
2,143 posts, read 7,054,941 times
Reputation: 1136
Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-springfielder View Post
I never said all guns should be banned, I own several myself which are weapons for hunting and if needed could be used to protect my home, I'm simply stating that your odds of running into a situation outside of your home in vermont that would require the use of a gun are are much less then your chance of accidently shooting yourself or someone else.
Well, that's just plain foolish thinking. Your chance of accidentally shooting yourself is virtually non existent and your chance of being a victim of crime is a real possibility. Thinking that crime doesn't happen, even in Vermont is naive.

I would rather have a gun with me and not need it than need one and not have it.
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Old 01-17-2009, 10:13 AM
 
Location: The Woods
16,458 posts, read 21,502,488 times
Reputation: 8417
Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-springfielder View Post
Maybe all the gun toters should move to Texas or Florida where they might actually have cause to pull their gun out, why waste their time in one of the safest states in the country? You're in more danger driving on the road so do you drive a tank? I personally know of many times when hunters fired their guns accidently, one fellow I worked with shot a hole in the windshield of the jeep he was riding in, a teacher I had shot the radiator in his car, these were people out hunting not walking around a mall full of old people and children. There was a recent shooting in chester Vt where a bunch of young people met to fight and a couple brought guns, one guy ended up dead, from what I read shot in the back as he tried to crawl away. Now the shooter is facing prison time, it was a good thing he went looking for a fight and brought his gun along instead of just staying away or calling the police. As I said people who look for trouble usually find it and there's no sanity or intelligence test given in vermont for someone to buy a gun, or carry one.
If you're talking about that incident in Chester, the charges were dropped for the first shot (self-defense) but the second shot is being claimed as unnecessary as the person was no longer a threat at that point. Who knows how it'll end...from what I saw the shooter had the gun in their vehicle and wasn't looking for a fight, but the other person was and charged him with a weapon (axe or something wasn't it?).

Comparing many hunters who may only pull their guns out and sight them in once or twice a year to a person who handles firearms all the time is not really so good a comparison. A person with more experience is less likely to have accidents.

The Dartmouth murderers would have killed those VT'ers if they didn't have their gun...then there was that car jacking last year by those people trying to flee the state that could have turned deadly for the victims. VT is a safe state compared to elsewhere but don't be lulled into a false sense of "it'll never happen here" because there have been times it has.
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