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Old 01-08-2009, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Illinois
2,415 posts, read 2,418,773 times
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Where did I learn about separation of Church and State? Article 53 Soviet Constitution. It is not in the U.S. constitution yet.

 
Old 01-09-2009, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Maine
898 posts, read 1,224,010 times
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Well, Separation of Church and State was never mentioned in either the Declaration of Independence nor the Constitution. The purpose of the First Amendment was to prevent the Congress from establishing a state religion, as the British Empire had done with the Anglican Church and to keep the government out of religious affairs. Its intent was not, however, to bar religions from having an influence on the government or to prevent religions from lobbying in Congress to have their views heard.
 
Old 01-09-2009, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Illinois
2,415 posts, read 2,418,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melinuxfool View Post
Well, Separation of Church and State was never mentioned in either the Declaration of Independence nor the Constitution. The purpose of the First Amendment was to prevent the Congress from establishing a state religion, as the British Empire had done with the Anglican Church and to keep the government out of religious affairs. Its intent was not, however, to bar religions from having an influence on the government or to prevent religions from lobbying in Congress to have their views heard.
I wonder if anyone at the New York Times knows this............
 
Old 01-09-2009, 09:01 AM
 
878 posts, read 1,883,676 times
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The "separation of Church and State" line comes from Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists Association in 1802.

Of course, the "wall" was intended to protect churches from government, something completely ignored by modern politicians.
 
Old 01-09-2009, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
7,090 posts, read 10,737,095 times
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I love the separation, once breaking a law becomes a sin too there's a problem. I couldn't jay walk, or speed, or loiter without going to hell. If a priest is a cop at the same time, would that mean they could arrest you for confession (in a catholic nation)?
 
Old 01-09-2009, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Illinois
2,415 posts, read 2,418,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
I love the separation, once breaking a law becomes a sin too there's a problem. I couldn't jay walk, or speed, or loiter without going to hell. If a priest is a cop at the same time, would that mean they could arrest you for confession (in a catholic nation)?
now thats a thought.
 
Old 01-09-2009, 11:27 AM
 
878 posts, read 1,883,676 times
Reputation: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
I love the separation, once breaking a law becomes a sin too there's a problem. I couldn't jay walk, or speed, or loiter without going to hell. If a priest is a cop at the same time, would that mean they could arrest you for confession (in a catholic nation)?
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
 
Old 01-09-2009, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Harrisonville
1,831 posts, read 2,110,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman0 View Post
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
The passages some people use to promote this idea don't say that at all. What they say is that if you break a civil law you should be prepared to pay the civil penalty. It doen't mean God is siding with the traffic cop, he's just not likely to gun him down with a thunderbolt. In the same way if you break God's law you need to be prepared to pay His penalty (even if there is no civil penalty, even if there is a civil reward).
 
Old 01-09-2009, 11:46 AM
 
878 posts, read 1,883,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatchance2005 View Post
The passages some people use to promote this idea don't say that at all. What they say is that if you break a civil law you should be prepared to pay the civil penalty. It doen't mean God is siding with the traffic cop, he's just not likely to gun him down with a thunderbolt. In the same way if you break God's law you need to be prepared to pay His penalty (even if there is no civil penalty, even if there is a civil reward).
Romans 13:1-2 seems pretty clear, you will be held to account for breaking the laws of man. Obviously the laws of God trump the laws of Man. I don't think the passage means that God is siding with the traffic cop, because then man could dictate laws to God, but rather God is saying that rebellion against earthly law is sinful.
 
Old 01-09-2009, 12:53 PM
 
Location: West Texas
2,441 posts, read 5,359,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman0 View Post
Romans 13:1-2 seems pretty clear, you will be held to account for breaking the laws of man. Obviously the laws of God trump the laws of Man. I don't think the passage means that God is siding with the traffic cop, because then man could dictate laws to God, but rather God is saying that rebellion against earthly law is sinful.
Unless you don't subscribe to the belief of a "God" (or the specific God referred to in the quoted post above), of course. In which case... I guess you're simply breaking a law. The written law of a country has no more or less "legality" because it's correlated to a religous context. I can't get 4 more years because someone thinks I not only broke the written law of man, but sinned, too.

Statements (and citings) like the one above are the epitome of why there should be a separation of church and state.
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