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Old 01-11-2009, 07:10 PM
 
5,273 posts, read 11,904,652 times
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Thus far we have seen two ways to fight terror.

The liberals use appeasment. It's based on diplomacy and a "we'll leave you alone if you leave us alone" ideaology. The direct result was 911 and thousands died. But they have to learn that terrorists are, literally, mentally deranged people who murder for fun. One would think that we learned from Hitler the idiocy of this method.

The conservative approach is to divide & conquer. It's a small part of the reason why we invaded Iraq, but a reason nonetheless. But they have had to learn than terrorism is not a country, people or religion. It's groups of people who will even murder each other as it's their sole goal- to murder that trascends boundries & religions.

To me, there should be no boundries in fighting organized terrorism. If there is a terroroist training camp somewhere, it gets destroyed. Period. If we can gain access to their funds, we seize them. Period. If we capture those responsible for spreading terror, then torture (to get information) and even public execution is the order of the day. We hunt them, spy on them, infiltrate them, and eliminate them. Place an international bounty on their heads. Terrorists understand only one language- the language of death.

Now, I realize this may offend some sensibilities, but when one really considers who we're fighting against, the tactics make sense. I also realize that there has to be some reasonable oversite so this doesn't get too carried away.

Anyone care to debate?
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Pensacola, Fl
656 posts, read 951,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAZER PROPHET View Post
Thus far we have seen two ways to fight terror.

The liberals use appeasment. It's based on diplomacy and a "we'll leave you alone if you leave us alone" ideaology. The direct result was 911 and thousands died. But they have to learn that terrorists are, literally, mentally deranged people who murder for fun. One would think that we learned from Hitler the idiocy of this method.

The conservative approach is to divide & conquer. It's a small part of the reason why we invaded Iraq, but a reason nonetheless. But they have had to learn than terrorism is not a country, people or religion. It's groups of people who will even murder each other as it's their sole goal- to murder that trascends boundries & religions.

To me, there should be no boundries in fighting organized terrorism. If there is a terroroist training camp somewhere, it gets destroyed. Period. If we can gain access to their funds, we seize them. Period. If we capture those responsible for spreading terror, then torture (to get information) and even public execution is the order of the day. We hunt them, spy on them, infiltrate them, and eliminate them. Place an international bounty on their heads. Terrorists understand only one language- the language of death.

Now, I realize this may offend some sensibilities, but when one really considers who we're fighting against, the tactics make sense. I also realize that there has to be some reasonable oversite so this doesn't get too carried away.

Anyone care to debate?
It's not appeasement, it's realizing that fighting will get nowhere and in the long run will lose more lives to save them. You do realize that 9/11 was the blowback from the government meddling in the middle east where their noses didn't belong in the first place? It's not because they hate us because we are rich, it's because we can't mind our own business.

The conservative approach is NOT to divide and conquer; that's the approach of what many know as neocon's. The conservative approach is for smaller government and not meddling in other countries affairs when it does not threaten our national security.

If we took on a foreign policy of non-interventionism, we would save loads of money and our problems with the middle east would be non-existent. For once, let's follow the lead of the Russians. They went in Afghanistan in the 70's and once they realized the breed of irrationality in that country, they hightailed it out of there. What sense does it make to forcefully go into a country to draw the wrath and hate of the people and the terrorist?? We need to stop trying to police the world and worry about the turmoil and what's going on inside our own borders.

You know who put Saddam in power? WE DID. And when it turned out he wasn't what we wanted him to do, you know what we did?? And you know how that goes.
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Aiken S.C
765 posts, read 1,680,363 times
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The war on terror is being fought to protect our freedom right?? And our freedom is based on the Constitution. And what you say goes completely against our Constitution. So what you are suggesting is to say to hell with whats those kids are over there fighting for, wipe our ass with the Constitution and become a facist state ,eliminate individual rights and if you don't like it lock them in reeducation camps and torture them until they tow the line. Who need free speech either? shut down the news outlets throw the reporters in jail. Don't forget to take away all the guns armed citizens may make your world difficult.. Burn the churches because god might lead to terrorism and get in the states way ... And you must eliminate a fair trial and due process of the law hell if you waterboard someone long enough they will eventually confess anyways.. While you are at it you may as well also eliminate term limits for the president ... Hell we'll just put one guy in there to rule with an iron fist for life.. You could save money by housing the military in private homes you seize in the states name after of course searching and seizing anything of value you find.... Yes what an America we could become.
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Old 01-11-2009, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,179 posts, read 9,113,598 times
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What the OP said is exactly what the liberals do - in their own country.

Remember Janet Reno? The heroine of the Ruby Ridge and Koresh "terrorist camps"? What you may not know about her is that she was like that in FL too, before she became Atty Gen. Of course, then it was the "where there's smoke, there's fire" child abuse hysteria. Neighbors heard screams, night after night, coming from the neighbor's property. Well, of course this meant that evil people were abusing their children - even though there was not a mark on the kids. Quoth Reno, "Well, there must be something to it - take away their kids." Even AFTER it turned out that the screams were mating raccoons in the trees at night, Reno threw out the exculpatory evidence and prosecuted the parents. That's what "liberals" do for their Constitution and your individual rights. Facts and truth mean nothing when it comes to power plays and reputation-building. Set 'em up any way you can, get an emotion-driven public response, and power right on through peoples' rights and freedoms.

But let's not bandy about words like "liberal" and "conservative", or even "neo-con" - sorry, kb09, but the neocons have become the 'conservative' leadership - because what either of them say is not what they do. Obama said he was going to end the war and bring the troops home - yet he is already planning to take them out of Iraq and pile them into Afghanistan. Let's see - since the introduction of US troops in Afghanistan, the poppy and opium production has doubled, war lords have offered their 'troops' to the US in exchange for the freedom to ship drugs to the US, and yet no one STILL has been able to produce Osama Bin Laden - the 'mastermind' of 911 and other terrorist attacks. Meanwhile, Muslims are voraciously converting adherents in our own prisons from our own populace - by telling them that they are poor and downtrodden and its all our governemtn's fault. You cannot name 10 states that do not have Muslim recruitment camps in their borders. Shall we go in and bomb our own people in our own states, our own country? The 'terrorists" are people without borders, but people with an ideology - and that ideology is to destroy for revenge and self-gratification.

And the root of that ideology, as kb09 points out, is the insistence of our government to invade, disturb, and molest other governments, to profit off of their backs, to give their newly-appointed puppetleaders millions and provide their buddy bureaucrats with billions in the "rebuilding". If someone in Afghanistan or Iraq protests that, it makes them a terrorist. If someone in this country protests that, are they a "freedom fighter" or a Constitutionalist lunatic? Every time we invade another country and tell them whom shall be their leader, because they are obviously too incompetent to rule themselves, we form a whole 'nother terrorist group.

It's about an oligarchy, it's about power and money undreamed of by the common people, it's about using our men and women in the military as cannon fodder for these power plays - and it's about time we returned to a Constitutional form of government, that limits involvement in other countries as well as power plays within our own. Too bad no one will ever see that again in this lifetime, in this country... because there are too many people who think that smashing the bad guys, whomever and wherever they may be, whomever and wherever we are told that they are, so that a handful of folks can grow richer and richer on the backs of the dead on both sides, won't ever make us - indistinguishable from the bad guys.
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Old 01-11-2009, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,523,609 times
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There is an implication in this question that there is a war on terror that needs to be fought. Or worse yet, that CAN be fought. The war on terror is largely imaginary, exists only because it was to the advantage of the Bush Administration to declare one, and can best be "fought" by treating it as though it were any other inconvenience that can be avoided by a bit of sensible vigilance. The cost of waging the war on terror, even here at home, has been huge compared to any realistic expectation of any harm that could have been done through terrorism.
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Old 01-11-2009, 11:34 PM
 
5,273 posts, read 11,904,652 times
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[laughing] I have to state that I am amazed at the responses so far.

My ideas, although the most effectice, may be over the top (which is why we will never employ them- not to mention we are a country that lives by the motto, "Let's try a failed approach rather than something new") and I freely admit that. I also realize some of my thoughts run afoul of current law (which is why I wrote this thread- to see what responses I would get). Any my oh my the responses.

The purpose here is to admit we are not, and never will be, equipped as a nation to effectively fight the "war on terror". Only countries like Russia & China can do that as they are more or less lawless in that respect. We have two generally ineffective methods and we will continue with them respective of which political party is in power.

That's the sad part of it all.
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Old 01-11-2009, 11:37 PM
 
27,903 posts, read 33,414,651 times
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Only one way. To empower the people with intellect, will, prosperity, hope, goals, ideas....none of which are usually looked at as good things to someone needing another person to strap a bomb onto their body. But if life is despair, hopelessness, poverty and all you have to look forward to is dying don't expect them not to speed up the process.

Ohhh damn that's the Bush doctrine...

On that note countries/states/nations take decades if not centuries to make that change...but it's just like Americans to expect to be able to order up a victory like a happy meal...
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Old 01-11-2009, 11:40 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,392,137 times
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i am liberal (or some think i am) in a word the fight on terror is purely internal security. ours stinks.
france has a good model. you remember the guys that helped us become a country, the ones that put the statue in the harbor. the ones we now disdain. former head of CIA george tenet, said need to stop making our enemies rich. but we like cheap oil, of course in reality OPEC oil is not cheap is it.
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Old 01-12-2009, 04:15 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,514,836 times
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By stop being paranoid?
You can fight a war on terror as much as you can enforce freedom on people.
Or command them to be spontaneous.
A war on terror is an open invitation to become a totalitarian regime, because you don't tolerate any other vision but your own, so everyone who disagrees with you is branded a 'terrorist'.
And this way you've become exactly what you were fighting against.
But I guess Nietzsche said it better:
Quote:
Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Old 01-12-2009, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,179 posts, read 9,113,598 times
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PPPHHHHHHBBBBBTTTTTTTTTTTT, BlazerProphet!

I wondered where that all came from, since your previous posts on similar topics were not as outrageously inflammatory.
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