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Why not just eliminate the income tax code and do the following:
Income less than or equal to the offical poverty level -- no tax.
Poverty level to $50K 10%
50K to 125K 15%
125K to 200K 20%
...for each 75K add 5% up to a max of say 85%.
...and yes have graduated tax levels.
Only allow deductions for:
1. Interest payments on primary residence.
2. Interest payments on educational loans.
3. Medical bills.
For corporations:
Net Income less than $1 million--25% tax
Net Income greater than $1 million -- 40% tax.
Paid dividends get deducted from Net Income before taxes.
Wouldn't this be fair? simple?
No other deductions.
I would have to review the overall impacts of the specific rates you are suggesting here, but am very open to the overall message of your post.
The tax code would greatly benefit from simplification and common sense.
You are right, S..., I just pulled the example numbers out of my hat. But I think it would kill the tax industry. It would put CPAs, tax attorneys, and turbo tax out of business.
Oh my. Did you intend to make such a naive statement there?
It is completely counterproductive to play some form of class warfare - that is the ploy of the unhappy, fearful, and dissatisfied. .
So, you think I ought to create "productive" myths, and present them as if they were true, in order to conform with some imaginary equilibrium between the classes. We need to avoid the appearance that the economic classes are in disharmony, and shout down "counterproductive" observations about our economy, in the interest of an orthodoxy that benefits only the class in power..
So, you think I ought to create "productive" myths, and present them as if they were true, in order to conform with some imaginary equilibrium between the classes. We need to avoid the appearance that the economic classes are in disharmony, and shout down "counterproductive" observations about our economy, in the interest of an orthodoxy that benefits only the class in power..
Not sure what your message here implies, though there appears to be clear resentment within it.
So regarding that resentmen I would advise, if you wish to make more money - make more money.
That is the great privilege of being an American. Hard work and dedication can pay off for those willing to practice those ideals. Resentment toward others who have more does nothing in reaching your own dreams, though is a readily available excuse for the uninspired.
Many different theories have been presented. But again, none of them address the underlying problem.
I don't care what stories claim that the upper crust pay the majority of taxes. It can only be one of two results: Not true, or true.
If it's not true, that means the system is flawed as implemented because the upper crust aren't paying, resulting in the lower levels being asked to pay more to compensate, which evidence suggests to be the case. If it is true, then that means the system is still flawed because due to reliance on the amount of money a person or corporation makes, it means the lower levels can never get ahead. In either case, the system is flawed. Dependence on on income allows people to duck the system, and the government refuses to go up against the rich to collect what they're owed. Especially when you think about super wealthy CEOs who report a $1 salary, yet billions of dollars in unreported income or stock or whatever passes hands, effectively taking advantage of various loopholes in the tax code.
I wouldn't even care if I didn't know, based on my own experience right now, that the governments (both Fed and State, though Fed is more fair about it) are relentless about collecting minuscule amounts from lower and middle class people, and lackadaisical about collecting from those that could afford to pay back taxes. Just the other day I nearly lost it at the FTB for sending me a letter threatening wage garnishment over a matter of $100 which was paid. Yet some joker can get away with owing over 4 million dollars and gets let slide.
The bottom line is, the tax code needs to get fixed, and I don't just mean the percentage. It needs to be viable enough as to prevent, as much as can be expected, tax evasion. Tax evasion, in my opinion, is the largest reason we don't have the money we should have, and why tax rates are so high on the middle class, but instead of catering to them as the government has done for decades, they need to make things equitable for all: rich, poor, middle, illegal, etc. I seriously think that only a consumption tax can accomplish that mission, because everyone has to consume.
[quote=revelated;7276661]Many different theories have been presented. But again, none of them address the underlying problem.
I don't care what stories claim that the upper crust pay the majority of taxes. It can only be one of two results: Not true, or true.
____
That is not a story - it is true, and not only true, but the portion of overall taxes being paid by the top 10% earners in this country continues to go up.
And if you fear tax evasion -make the tax code both simpler, and fair.
As it is now, those who pay nothing into the system are given refunds.
That is not fair - that is simply another form of welfare.
Do some research on the subject and you will find that almost every time taxes are cut, revenues to the government actually increase.
It is a simple recipe for economic prosperity, yet so many in this country have been taught to "hate the rich" and "help the poor", that common sense becomes increasingly less common regarding this subject.
Many different theories have been presented. But again, none of them address the underlying problem.
I don't care what stories claim that the upper crust pay the majority of taxes. It can only be one of two results: Not true, or true.
____
That is not a story - it is true, and not only true, but the portion of overall taxes being paid by the top 10% earners in this country continues to go up.
And if you fear tax evasion -make the tax code both simpler, and fair.
As it is now, those who pay nothing into the system are given refunds.
That is not fair - that is simply another form of welfare.
Do some research on the subject and you will find that almost every time taxes are cut, revenues to the government actually increase.
It is a simple recipe for economic prosperity, yet so many in this country have been taught to "hate the rich" and "help the poor", that common sense becomes increasingly less common regarding this subject.
And what will folks do if/when Obama comes out with a report showing that of the X millionaires and billionaires in the country, 1% of them actually file tax returns timely and pay tax due? Don't you find it mighty funny that these banks are giving golden parachutes to complete inepts who allowed the banks under their control to fail with pathetic policies and procedures - or lack thereof - yet for some mysterious reason, we are in a bigger deficit than before?
Don't you find it mighty funny that in a tough economy, men like Hugh Hefner can still make as much money as they do, yet we are still in a deficit?
Mighty funny that a guy like Madoff "Made off" with so much money, has nothing to show for it, yet we are still in a deficit?
Mighty funny that a guy who was about to be part of Obama's own administration was ducking taxes? And to date as far as I know STILL has not paid those taxes?
I don't buy it. I don't buy that all these wealthy cats are paying their fair share. Maybe they're paying $10,000 of their multi-millions, but that isn't fair share. Based on our current tax code, if every millionaire-plus paid their taxes due timely, it would be roughly 30% of our nation's deficit, by my math. Since the deficit is growing rather than shrinking, I make the assumption that those taxes aren't being collected. Nobody's going to convince me otherwise either. If they were paying taxes, they'd welcome a consumption tax with open arms, because it would effectively mean lower taxes for them in the long run with conservation being a consideration - they don't want a consumption tax, because it would force them to pay taxes they hadn't been all this time.
And what will folks do if/when Obama comes out with a report showing that of the X millionaires and billionaires in the country, 1% of them actually file tax returns timely and pay tax due? Don't you find it mighty funny that these banks are giving golden parachutes to complete inepts who allowed the banks under their control to fail with pathetic policies and procedures - or lack thereof - yet for some mysterious reason, we are in a bigger deficit than before?
Don't you find it mighty funny that in a tough economy, men like Hugh Hefner can still make as much money as they do, yet we are still in a deficit?
Mighty funny that a guy like Madoff "Made off" with so much money, has nothing to show for it, yet we are still in a deficit?
Mighty funny that a guy who was about to be part of Obama's own administration was ducking taxes? And to date as far as I know STILL has not paid those taxes?
I don't buy it. I don't buy that all these wealthy cats are paying their fair share. Maybe they're paying $10,000 of their multi-millions, but that isn't fair share. Based on our current tax code, if every millionaire-plus paid their taxes due timely, it would be roughly 30% of our nation's deficit, by my math. Since the deficit is growing rather than shrinking, I make the assumption that those taxes aren't being collected. Nobody's going to convince me otherwise either. If they were paying taxes, they'd welcome a consumption tax with open arms, because it would effectively mean lower taxes for them in the long run with conservation being a consideration - they don't want a consumption tax, because it would force them to pay taxes they hadn't been all this time.
Mighty funny.
Nothing funny about it.
And a consumption tax has support across the economic spectrum - I recall a television debate on this very subject some years back and it was a representative for a consumer interest group that opposed it - a group that stated it would harm the "lower classes" of America.
And a consumption tax has support across the economic spectrum - I recall a television debate on this very subject some years back and it was a representative for a consumer interest group that opposed it - a group that stated it would harm the "lower classes" of America.
Go figure!
That's because said interest group didn't understand how it affects the "lower class" of America. The same way some in this thread misunderstand.
"But we lose charity deductions!!" - If you're not taxed at payroll time, there's nothing to deduct against, because you didn't lose anything. If you're referring to the tax paid during consumption, conserve and lower your tax automatically yourself if it really bothers you. You'd save a lot more than a simple deduction.
"But prices go up!!!" - So what? You're making more money, you can afford it, AND you don't have to fight with paperwork and stress come April 15th. Maybe to some that isn't a valid trade-off, but to me, absolutely.
"But that means the poor will also be taxed!!" - Sure, but if what you're buying falls in the spectrum of basic necessities, you get a credit against what you get taxed, so it balances out. In some cases you end up profiting a little, if your spending is conservative.
"But what about my credits??" - Credit for what? A credit is simply a bone against what you paid. If nothing is held from your check, you didn't pay anything, thus nothing to credit.
Too many people aren't seeing the forest for the trees because they've been whitewashed by the current tax code. Its very cunning method of blinding people with all of these credits and deductions that you shouldn't even have to deal with in the first place because your money shouldn't be taken before you touch it, is the most heinous crime in this country outside of murder. What's even better is that the government is the ultimate criminal in this - fool the masses into thinking that the current system is more financially beneficial, when the facts are clear that it is not.
I'd support taxes going away BUT I know states need some money.
Too many people aren't seeing the forest for the trees because they've been whitewashed by the current tax code. Its very cunning method of blinding people with all of these credits and deductions that you shouldn't even have to deal with in the first place because your money shouldn't be taken before you touch it, is the most heinous crime in this country outside of murder. What's even better is that the government is the ultimate criminal in this - fool the masses into thinking that the current system is more financially beneficial, when the facts are clear that it is not.
_______
I agree with your point. A bit dramatic perhaps, but right on the mark.
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