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Old 03-20-2009, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Nowhere
9,754 posts, read 2,153,044 times
Reputation: 2118

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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
I never said "MOST" women feel guilty after having abortions...I said "MANY" do.

And you are very right...I've never been through pregnancy or childbirth myself. The closest I've come is my wife going through it. I am actually quite thankful I will never have to go through it myself.

As far as the 16 year old pregnancies...of course I know that 16 year olds don't need to be having kids. They actually shouldn't be sexually active at all. I understand this isn't very realistic with the way sex is made so "cool"...but they need to wait. I was 20 my first time and it wasn't THAT hard to not have sex at 16.

HOWEVER, if I had a daughter who DID choose to have sex at 16 AND got pregnant...it would be about HELPING her make the right choice...not about me forcing it on her. As long as abortion was legal, I would sign a consent form to allow it (even though I am personally against it) after making sure she really knew it's what she wanted to do. If she chose to give the baby up for adoption, I'd support that. As far as trying to raise the child herself, if she wanted that, I would have ZERO clue what to do then.

So I think we at least (somewhat) agree on this.
More or less.. lol... more or less.

We're totally hogging this thread but just want to add that I think the parent has the primary responsibility of doing the thinking in this case.. not the kid... even if said kid is 16.
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,472 posts, read 8,213,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlaGrrrl View Post
More or less.. lol... more or less.

We're totally hogging this thread but just want to add that I think the parent has the primary responsibility of doing the thinking in this case.. not the kid... even if said kid is 16.
IMO the parent has the responsibility of educating the kid about the choices, explaining the positives and negatives of each choice, and helping the kid to make a choice. You're taking away too much responsibility from a 16 yo who was "adult" enough to go out and get pregnant.

Preferably, you educate the kid to abstain at least until they're out of high school. I think...religion and morals aside...everyone would agree that's the best way to go. Will it work? Not necessarily. But you've got a much better chance if you try.
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Old 03-20-2009, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Nowhere
9,754 posts, read 2,153,044 times
Reputation: 2118
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
IMO the parent has the responsibility of educating the kid about the choices, explaining the positives and negatives of each choice, and helping the kid to make a choice. You're taking away too much responsibility from a 16 yo who was "adult" enough to go out and get pregnant.

Preferably, you educate the kid to abstain at least until they're out of high school. I think...religion and morals aside...everyone would agree that's the best way to go. Will it work? Not necessarily. But you've got a much better chance if you try.
Here's where we disagree again.. I don't think a 16y/o can be educated into understanding the full repercussions of a pregnancy/birth/abortion/parenting. I would shoulder the responsibility of that choice.. prob until the age of 18, if you wanna be honest about it. I think we might also have differing views on parenting, though. I understand some parents aren't as engaged with their children.. and even if they are engaged when they're very young.. I see an extreme change come puberty... from personal observations of other parenting styles.. but ya know that's just not my style.
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Old 03-21-2009, 01:56 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,400 posts, read 4,959,129 times
Reputation: 2733
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormy night View Post
How many babies have you had? "Something the size of a watermelon out of something the size of a walnut." sounds like something from a sitcom. Carrying a baby and giving birth isn't really that bad. Being pregnant is fantastic, and the actual birth process lasts just a short few hours. NOT THAT MEN SHOULDN'T APPRECIATE US FOR IT, THEY'D BETTER.
Then how would YOU describe it in relation to the size of the thing coming out of you? Which, when you think about it, is creepy in an of itself.
Nope. Never had a baby. Never will. My birthday present to myself when I turn 25 is to have my tubes tied, burned, and then tied again.
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to look at what a pregnancy does to your body (stretch marks, sickness, boobs leaking, weight gain, etc...disgusting.I'd rather jump off a cliff than to do that to myself)
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Colddiamond...If you think the process of giving birth is so bad, you do NOT have sex. Unfortunately, every time you spread your legs you do so KNOWING there is a risk involved. If you want to make the risk significantly lower, use BC. If you do not want to accept this risk at all, keep your legs CLOSED.
Yes, yes, Im going to be a 30 year old married woman in the future and not have sex...HA! Unrealistic much?
I can avoid it by
(a) Pill
(b) condom
(c) combine the two each time
(d) Finally turn 25 so that a doctor will actually tie 'em in a knot and burn all possibilities.
(e) In the meantime, use all precautions and hope to God I have the same inability to have kids as my aunt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple_Princess View Post
So pregnancy is some horrific thing and then suddenly when you are ready Its just the "most amazing experience I've ever had". What a cop out. I didn't realize you considered someone elses life a hassle. That DOES explain why we treat each other as we do in this society. Anything that isn't 100% self-centered becomes a needless hassle. Thats kinda sad actually. Well everyone reaps what they sow. Thats why many women decide they are suddenly "ready" and can't conceive or lose their children all together. It sounds harsh but its reality. What do you say then "wait I wanted this one to live not die like the inconvenient ones.
First off, where in the blue hell did I say that?! Answer? I didnt. Pregnancy to me would be horrific and I absolutely REFUSE to do it. Ever. Its the one thing I truly despise about being a woman.
We take every precaution we can, but if those precautions fail then I want an option to safely get out of being pregnant. If the option to safely do so isnt available, I'd find my own way.
Think about that, because there are other women who'd do the same thing. There would be underground abortions in possibly less than safe conditions. Basic law of business, friends. If there's a need then SOMEBODY would fill it, legal or not. Abortion isnt new, and legal or not it would happen.
Look it up, and you'll see that women have attempted to end a pregnancy via a coathanger and ended up killing themselves on top of it.
Second, if I completely lost my mind and decided I wanted children, I'd go to the SPCA first.
If the critter(s) didnt satisfy the urge, I'd look into a human SPCA...called an adoption agency.
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Old 03-21-2009, 02:30 AM
 
422 posts, read 381,879 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlaGrrrl View Post
Listen Princess.. it's about what's best for the kid... maybe you should read through my posts before reacting.
Which kid ? The unborn one or the one you give 2 cents about ?
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Old 03-21-2009, 02:37 AM
 
422 posts, read 381,879 times
Reputation: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlaGrrrl View Post
You're arguing about morality though and you can't tell someone what they should or shouldn't do morally.. I agree with Colddiamond on a lot of her points... who are you to say that an embryo has more rights than the mother? Your beliefs are just that.. *yours*. If you have control over your life.. let that be enough... you're not going to program the entire world to think and feel and believe like you do... so get over it.
I wasn't asking so much about morality, I was speaking on hypocrisy. Its a fetus when I want it dead and a baby when I want to shop for it and have a baby shower. It seems self centered and cold. Because it is.
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Old 03-21-2009, 02:41 AM
 
Location: Nowhere
9,754 posts, read 2,153,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple_Princess View Post
Which kid ? The unborn one or the one you give 2 cents about ?
The fully developed kid.. in this example the 9 year old.. I say flush the clump of cells in this scenario

Next...
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Old 03-21-2009, 02:47 AM
 
Location: Nowhere
9,754 posts, read 2,153,044 times
Reputation: 2118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple_Princess View Post
I wasn't asking so much about morality, I was speaking on hypocrisy. Its a fetus when I want it dead and a baby when I want to shop for it and have a baby shower. It seems self centered and cold. Because it is.
I don't give a hot damn what it seems like to you.. if that's the way you see it fine. That's a box you're creating for yourself based on your beliefs.. you live in that box... just stop wagging your finger telling everyone else that because sometimes they want to celebrate a pregnancy and other times they want it terminated.. they're hypocritical. We were talking about a 9 y/o and if a kid that age got pregnant I certainly won't be celebrating...
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Old 03-21-2009, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,472 posts, read 8,213,415 times
Reputation: 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlaGrrrl View Post
I don't give a hot damn what it seems like to you.. if that's the way you see it fine. That's a box you're creating for yourself based on your beliefs.. you live in that box... just stop wagging your finger telling everyone else that because sometimes they want to celebrate a pregnancy and other times they want it terminated.. they're hypocritical. We were talking about a 9 y/o and if a kid that age got pregnant I certainly won't be celebrating...
I don't think ANY of us would be "celebrating."
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Old 03-21-2009, 07:34 AM
 
Location: where my heart is
5,643 posts, read 4,248,583 times
Reputation: 1661
Default They can't see the forest for the trees

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
And it is because I am a parent that I am prochoice-- because I understand the immense responsibility that comes with a child, and don't believe that should be thrust on unwilling, unprepared women.
Or children. Would those of you who are prochoice really support the idea of a nine-year-old who's been raped by her step-father being forced to carry twins?
Rhetorical question.
Of course you would.
Because a woman's life only matters to you until she's born.
As you said, they seem to care more about the unborn than the already born. I had an ectopic pregnancy. At the time I was married and had three year old daughter. As my doctor said to me at the time, I had to unfortunately go to a "christian" hospital because there were no beds in the state run hospital.

I cannot tell you how badly they treated me. Like I was some kind of criminal because I wanted to be treated for this. Yes, that meant "killing my baby" as they said. Well, hell what about MY LIFE? What about the fact that my already born child wanted her mother? All this for a baby that had no chance of surviving 9 months in a fallopian tube anyway?

That poor little girl. These people only think of the here and now. Did they ever consider that there might be some greater plan in all this that they have no way of knowing?

What if that little girl had died, and probably her baby too? When she grew up, how many future children would never have been born because she had died? Do they ever think of this? I know in my case, if I had died, my younger daughter would never have been born.

They cannot see beyond the here and now. They know everything there is possibly to know because their religion tells them so.
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