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Old 03-21-2009, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,347,875 times
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I'd also like to see a ban on more than say...1 abortion every 5 years. Reason for this is I don't feel that abortion should be used as a way of alleviating yourself from responsibility.

If I understand correctly, there are also medical risks associated with having repeat abortions.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:41 AM
 
2,546 posts, read 5,765,283 times
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I'm pro-choice.
I think it's up to the girl with what decision she wants to make.
If you get pregnant, you shouldn't have to have the baby if you dont want to. It's a personal choice. Not every girl wants to be a mom.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Nowhere
9,761 posts, read 2,894,581 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
I'd also like to see a ban on more than say...1 abortion every 5 years. Reason for this is I don't feel that abortion should be used as a way of alleviating yourself from responsibility.

If I understand correctly, there are also medical risks associated with having repeat abortions.
1-You're saying have restrictions to ensure adherence to an albeit loose form of morality? I don't think that's why we have laws.

2-There are medical risks associated with over eating and alcohol abuse but no one's going to enforce responsible behavior for consumption of either.

Seems like you're trying really hard to compromise so that you feel more comfortable living in a world that often comes into conflict with your personal beliefs.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:57 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,398 posts, read 6,806,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
It's this attitude right here that frustrates me so much. You are saying you'd use abortion as another BC method.

And why do you hate kids so much?
Where did I say Id use it as another BC method? Hmm?
I would use it as a last option, as a last resort if everything else failed. The object of BC is to never get pregnant in the first place, correct? I want that last option, and last resort available to people like me that have absolutely no.business. having children.

And again, WHERE did I say I hate them? Or do you just assume that because I dont want to pop one out of my body that I "hate kids so much"?

I just dont want any and I dont want to be around them for more than is necessary.
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,347,875 times
Reputation: 4521
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlaGrrrl View Post
1-You're saying have restrictions to ensure adherence to an albeit loose form of morality? I don't think that's why we have laws.

2-There are medical risks associated with over eating and alcohol abuse but no one's going to enforce responsible behavior for consumption of either.

Seems like you're trying really hard to compromise so that you feel more comfortable living in a world that often comes into conflict with your personal beliefs.
The medical risks associated with overeating and alcohol abuse are different, because they are not imposed by a so called "professional" that the state has every right (and an actually a duty and an obligation) to regulate. Abortions are different....no medical procedures should EVER be permitted if there are serious risks associated with them unless there is a MORE severe medical risk associated with not performing the procedure.

We already do have some laws relating to alcohol abuse, btw, such as no drinking for those under 21, DWI laws, PI laws, no sales to those who are already intoxicated, etc. And in some states we have procedures where people can be involuntarily committed to rehab for alcohol/drug abuse.

I have another idea...require a woman before getting an abortion to see an ultrasound and also require a minimum 72-hour waiting period, her to see a video of an abortion, and her to receive information on options such as adoption, assistance with raising the child, etc.

This is actually about protecting the woman. We already have laws in place to protect those whose mental capacity is diminished (minors, those who are mentally ill, those who are intoxicated, etc.). We have to ensure the woman is able to make an informed and rational decision...not a spur of the moment one. A woman who simply rushes off to the abortion clinic may be doing so in a very passionate moment when her mental capacity IS diminished.
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,347,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colddiamond102 View Post
Where did I say Id use it as another BC method? Hmm?
I would use it as a last option, as a last resort if everything else failed. The object of BC is to never get pregnant in the first place, correct? I want that last option, and last resort available to people like me that have absolutely no.business. having children.

And again, WHERE did I say I hate them? Or do you just assume that because I dont want to pop one out of my body that I "hate kids so much"?

I just dont want any and I dont want to be around them for more than is necessary.
Sorry if I offended you at all. But your post sent a strong message that you don't want to have anything to do with kids which implied that you dislike them.
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:05 PM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 4,818,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
With respect to protecting a person who can't make a choice, yes. With respect to a person who is just as much yours as hers, yes.

In the case of a rapist, I do agree.
Well, thank you for that. But I happen to believe that even consensual sex does not confer any right to decide what to do with someone else's uterus. This affects not only women who choose to abort or to carry the pregnancy in contravention of the father's wishes. Allow the man to have a legal say in whether to terminate or continue a pregnancy, and it's a very short distance to a place where the father has veto power over prenatal care and childbirth options, whether to use pain relief and whether or not to breastfeed. To give one person the power of guardianship over a mentally competent adult human being in any aspect is to give that person the power of guardianship in principle -- and from there, it's all a merry slippery slope.
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:07 PM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 4,818,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
But your post sent a strong message that you don't want to have anything to do with kids which implied that you dislike them.
Which is perfectly okay and her business. Being young and fertile does not mean one is required to by law to like children and to want to reproduce.
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:08 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,398 posts, read 6,806,446 times
Reputation: 2822
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
The medical risks associated with overeating and alcohol abuse are different, because they are not imposed by a so called "professional" that the state has every right (and an actually a duty and an obligation) to regulate. Abortions are different....no medical procedures should EVER be permitted if there are serious risks associated with them unless there is a MORE severe medical risk associated with not performing the procedure.

We already do have some laws relating to alcohol abuse, btw, such as no drinking for those under 21, DWI laws, PI laws, no sales to those who are already intoxicated, etc. And in some states we have procedures where people can be involuntarily committed to rehab for alcohol/drug abuse.

I have another idea...require a woman before getting an abortion to see an ultrasound and also require a minimum 72-hour waiting period, her to see a video of an abortion, and her to receive information on options such as adoption, assistance with raising the child, etc.

This is actually about protecting the woman. We already have laws in place to protect those whose mental capacity is diminished (minors, those who are mentally ill, those who are intoxicated, etc.). We have to ensure the woman is able to make an informed and rational decision...not a spur of the moment one. A woman who simply rushes off to the abortion clinic may be doing so in a very passionate moment when her mental capacity IS diminished.
In other words, you want to try to convince her, without directly saying so, to have the kid? You want to have her look at the thing that's in there and make a difficult decision ten times worse,, and you're also saying that a woman that decides to have an abortion doesnt know her own mind, her own needs and wants?

Give me a break.
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 32,436,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca View Post
No one should have any "choice" with respect to a fully grown adult human being's body. For the record, there is exactly one documented case of a woman fishing a condom out of the trash and successfully getting pregnant -- and that was because she wanted to be a mother. Since typical child support awards cover only about a third of the actual cost of raising a child, and since single motherhood effectively puts the brakes on a woman's career and ability to increase her income, the myth of legions of women getting rich by getting pregnant is just that -- a myth. That, however, is besides the point. Pregnancy is a parasitical process, and the decision to end or continue it is, fundamentally, a medical one. Until a mother can have a "choice" to donate the father's kidney to her fully grown and developed child, the father should have no choice as to what happens to the mother's uterus.
This is leaning slightly towards a strawman...

I'm not saying that any man should be able to compel a woman to bear a child or terminate a pregnancy, nor am I asserting that women can get rich by getting pregnant.

I'm saying that the man's financial participation in the child's upbringing should not always be at the woman's discretion. There is too much potential for abuse for this to be a black-and-white issue.
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