U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-22-2009, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Pensacola, Fl
656 posts, read 942,631 times
Reputation: 373

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
My problem is with abortions towards the end of the second trimester and during the third trimester FOR THE PURPOSE OF releasing yourself from responsibility.
How would you even know? Are you in the mind of a pregnant woman that does not want - or does not think she is fiscally or mentally able to raise a child? Wouldn't that be considered a release of responsibility to you? It seems to me that you think women (or most of them) that have abortions are slutty whores who go out and have sex every night get pregnant, abort and do the same thing the next week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
If it is about not being able to financially provide, at that point, she's gotten far enough along that it's a very selfish reason. Adoption IS an option.
What do you consider a selfish reason?

Everyone speaks of adoption like it is a wonderful easy, quick process that is taken care of in a matter of days. The truth of adoption is that it is slow, sloppy, and while a child is waiting to be adopted, they are shifted from foster home to foster home, not knowing what a real family is. Only a small percent of Americans even qualify for adoption (half of that small percentage does not even want to adopt) and there are too many children already that need to be adopted. So what do we do? Overload the system even more, create more children in foster homes (which are also running out) just so you can have a clear conscience?

No sir, I don't think so. I have friends who grew up in the foster home system (fact: some kids never get adopted). Some of them are turning out fine, and most of them never had that mother or father in their life because they were constantly shuffled around from home to home (which creates a void where the guidance of a parent was supposed to be) and they have serious behavioral and mental issues.

Knowing what I know about the adoption and what happens if a kid cannot get adopted (which is a more likely occurance than the kid getting adopted) I would have to stray away from it. Yes, adoption is an option, but in the interest of the child (which you are very concerned about) it is not even close to the best one.

Last edited by kb09; 03-22-2009 at 12:43 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-22-2009, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,597,735 times
Reputation: 4531
Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
How would you even know? Are you in the mind of a pregnant woman that does not want - or does not think she is fiscally or mentally able to raise a child? Wouldn't that be considered a release of responsibility to you? It seems to me that you think women (or most of them) that have abortions are slutty whores who go out and have sex every night get pregnant, abort and do the same thing the next week.


What do you consider a selfish reason?

Everyone speaks of adoption like it is a wonderful easy, quick process that is taken care of in a matter of days. The truth of adoption is that it is slow, sloppy, and while a child is waiting to be adopted, they are shifted from foster home to foster home, not knowing what a real family is. Only a small percent of Americans even qualify for adoption and there are too many children already that need to be adopted. So what do we do? Overload the system even more, create more children in foster homes (which are also running out) just so you can have a clear conscience?

No sir, I don't think so. I have friends who grew up in the foster home system (fact: some kids never get adopted). Some of them are turning out fine, and most of them never had that mother or father in their life because they were constantly shuffled around from home to home (which creates a void where the guidance of a parent was supposed to be) and they have serious behavioral and mental issues.

Knowing what I know about the adoption and what happens if a kid cannot get adopted (which is a more likely occurance than the kid getting adopted) I would have to stray away from it. Yes, adoption is an option, but in the interest of the child (which you are very concerned about) it is not even close to the best one.
Some kids may never get adopted, but there are many kids out there who are. I think you are a bit confused about the difference between kids who go into foster care because they are taken away from their parents later on and kids who are given up for adoption at birth.

How do you think we should deal with the kids in foster care, if you don't mind me asking? Kill them to spare them from that suffering?

You suggested yourself that action needs to be taken in the case of a third trimester abortion if it is not medically necessary. If someone can feel pain, do they not count as enough of a person to you? I bet you are certainly happy your mother did not exercise her right to abort you once you COULD feel pain.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2009, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Pensacola, Fl
656 posts, read 942,631 times
Reputation: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Some kids may never get adopted, but there are many kids out there who are. I think you are a bit confused about the difference between kids who go into foster care because they are taken away from their parents later on and kids who are given up for adoption at birth.
Dude, what do you think happens to kids who don't get adopted? Foster care is for kids who are taken away from their parents, kids whose parents die (and don't have relatives that can take care of them) and *gasp* for kids who don't get adopted!

Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
How do you think we should deal with the kids in foster care, if you don't mind me asking? Kill them to spare them from that suffering?
I don't have an answer for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
I bet you are certainly happy your mother did not exercise her right to abort you once you COULD feel pain.
How would I even know? I wouldn't be here to talk about the pain had she aborted me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2009, 01:29 PM
 
422 posts, read 549,980 times
Reputation: 487
Even an infant one hour old will fight to breathe. TO LIVE. The difference is that an unborn baby's gasps for breath and fight for life during an abortion can't be heard. They did prick a first trimester baby with a pin and it flinched. BIG TIME. Maybe because it hurt. The spinal cord develops early ya know. And you can bet that if you were napping and someone ripped off an arm or leg or replaced your oxygen with salt you'd notice and feel the pain.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2009, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,597,735 times
Reputation: 4531
Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
Dude, what do you think happens to kids who don't get adopted? Foster care is for kids who are taken away from their parents, kids whose parents die (and don't have relatives that can take care of them) and *gasp* for kids who don't get adopted!
Most mothers who decide to give their children up for adoption are not choosing to give them to the state to raise. They usually get to meet and select the adoptive parents, etc. before the child is delivered. I have friends and even extended family who have adopted children. It's not that bad and those kids are theirs in every way.

The foster kids who are so difficult to adopt out are generally not newborns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
I don't have an answer for that.
You have an answer for everything else. I have conceded clearly regarding first and even, to an extent, second trimester abortions. I personally feel they are immoral and wrong but I can find no rational basis to legally ban them. But once we get to the point where the child can actually feel the pain AND there is no medical reason for the abortion, I don't see how that's different from simply killing a born child.

The point is if abortion of a viable fetus is to be permitted to prevent NON-MEDICAL suffering, how far are you willing to go along those lines?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
How would I even know? I wouldn't be here to talk about the pain had she aborted me.
OK but aren't you GLAD that she didn't? That was my question.

Your views are EXTREMELY liberal....and very biased based on your freedoms that you feel should only apply to YOU. You don't seem to care about the freedom of men (or actual equality) or about the freedom of children.

Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 03-22-2009 at 01:52 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2009, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Seabrook, New Hampshire
257 posts, read 532,766 times
Reputation: 174
pro-life
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2009, 11:34 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,398 posts, read 6,895,469 times
Reputation: 2822
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Of course I understand that. I'm simply saying that if you are THAT against having a child, then you don't have sex. IF you are adamantly against parenting a child but are willing to go through pregnancy and childbirth if the protection fails, then you can go ahead and have sex and give the child up for adoption.
So ecstatic to have your permission.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2009, 11:45 PM
 
Location: NW. MO.
1,817 posts, read 5,702,691 times
Reputation: 1344
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
What about the kids? They don't get a say.
I was raped at 13, I do believe a kid should have a say. I've been pro-choice every since. I would have had an abortion had I become pregnant.

Last edited by misplaced1; 03-23-2009 at 12:25 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2009, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,597,735 times
Reputation: 4531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colddiamond102 View Post
So ecstatic to have your permission.
I should add having your tubes tied is also, of course, an option.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2009, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,597,735 times
Reputation: 4531
After thinking about this more, I don't think abortion should be allowed at all....with exceptions in the case of rape (as long as it is done in a timely manner) and in the case of medical necessity, possibly including the fetus having severe abnormalitiies.

Reason being, the woman did choose to engage in an act knowing that a pregnancy could result. The man did as well and since he has no ability to simply relieve himself from the obligation to support his child, the woman should not be permitted to do the same. That IS sexism...like it or not.

Let's do a better job of educating girls and young women about the dangers associated with pregnancy and childbirth before any pregnancy occurs.

Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 03-23-2009 at 08:11 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top