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Old 03-26-2009, 04:38 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,336,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca View Post
but once his role is over, he has no choice as to whether a baby will be born ....

Ah - your statement / assertion above? Not necessarily true.
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
857 posts, read 1,227,611 times
Reputation: 558
"We gotta come to some new ideas about life folks ok? I'm not being blase about abortion, it might be a real issue, it might not, doesn't matter to me. What matters is that if you believe in the sanctity of life then you believe it for life of all ages. That's what I hate about this child-worship syndrome going on. "Save the children! They're killing children! How many children were at Waco? They're killing children!" What does that mean? They reach a certain age and they're off your f****** love-list? F*** your children, if that's the way you think then f*** you too. You either love all people of all ages or you shut the f*** up." - RIP Bill Hicks
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Pensacola, Fl
656 posts, read 950,689 times
Reputation: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
The law is sexist as well...you can't seem to see it that way. But both nature and the law are sexist in this case.
Because the law is an offset of a natural phenomenon (and I know it's sexist, but really, what can you or I do about it? Answer: nothing).

When men start to have the ability to become pregnant then they can do whatever they want with their fetus. But, until that time, they have no right whatsoever to lay claim to another persons body and what's in it; no matter how much you kick, scream, cry, and bemoan about it, it is true and it is the law. Now, under the law of morality? Hmmm yea; but morals play no role in government. It is unwise (and extremely idiotic) to have a law based of the morality of an issue.

Life isn't fair bud; this is just a prime example of how unfair it is. And their is nothing we can do to change it short of rearranging the anatomy of a man.
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,750,763 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
Because the law is an offset of a natural phenomenon (and I know it's sexist, but really, what can you or I do about it? Answer: nothing).

When men start to have the ability to become pregnant then they can do whatever they want with their fetus. But, until that time, they have no right whatsoever to lay claim to another persons body and what's in it; no matter how much you kick, scream, cry, and bemoan about it, it is true and it is the law. Now, under the law of morality? Hmmm yea; but morals play no role in government. It is unwise (and extremely idiotic) to have a law based of the morality of an issue.

Life isn't fair bud; this is just a prime example of how unfair it is. And their is nothing we can do to change it short of rearranging the anatomy of a man.
What laws do you think should be made that are biased against women?
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Old 03-26-2009, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
857 posts, read 1,227,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
Now, under the law of morality? Hmmm yea; but morals play no role in government. It is unwise (and extremely idiotic) to have a law based of the morality of an issue.
And just when you are sure you have heard the dumbest thing ever, someone new opens their mouth.

Morality is defined as the standards of conduct that are generally accepted as right or proper. Our Government creates its laws to reinforce these standards that were generally accepted by our representatives and to punish those who violate these standards.

On what, dare I ask, do you believe our laws were based???
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Old 03-26-2009, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,750,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
And just when you are sure you have heard the dumbest thing ever, someone new opens their mouth.

Morality is defined as the standards of conduct that are generally accepted as right or proper. Our Government creates its laws to reinforce these standards that were generally accepted by our representatives and to punish those who violate these standards.

On what, dare I ask, do you believe our laws were based???
Without morality being legislated to an extent, our society would be one of mass chaos and anarchy....not much of a civilization at all. I'm not advocating no personal freedom or even close to it, but I think the majority of Americans appreciate having some order and are willing to give up some liberties to promote more freedom in general.

Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 03-26-2009 at 12:09 PM..
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Pensacola, Fl
656 posts, read 950,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
What laws do you think should be made that are biased against women?
I don't think any laws should be biased against women - or men for that matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
And just when you are sure you have heard the dumbest thing ever, someone new opens their mouth.

Morality is defined as the standards of conduct that are generally accepted as right or proper. Our Government creates its laws to reinforce these standards that were generally accepted by our representatives and to punish those who violate these standards.
No sir, you are quite wrong for you see, morality (just as religion) is different for everyone. Read: my morals are not your morals. To impose a moral code (as in imposing religion) goes against the morale of the constitution. By your definition, if a mass amount of the population believed that honor killings and stoning kids were the right thing to do - the moral thing to do - by your definition, that would be incorporated into our law, would it not? By your definition, if a large segment of the population believed for something to be moral or just to do, then we could incorporate that belief into our law just because of popularity, right?

It is our constitution that protects us from such things happening; meaning, the tyranny of the majority cannot rule over the minority. You cannot base laws off of something as subjective as morals because it is different for everyone. It is better to leave morals out of government even so that you don't run the risk of imposing one's beliefs onto others. With that sir, would you agree?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
On what, dare I ask, do you believe our laws were based???
The constitution would be my base. I don't know, the whole notion of not infringing on another's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, even if you don't agree with the way they go about it. Shucks, I couldn't really tell ya! But hey, that's just me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Without morality being legislated to an extent, our society would be one of mass chaos and anarchy....not much of a civilization at all.
Not so my dear friend. The constitution is the supreme law of our land. Not God, not morals, not your own personal beliefs.

But this is all a bit off topic eh?
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,750,763 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
I don't think any laws should be biased against women - or men for that matter.
You already admitted that the abortion laws are biased against women and should be due to the biological bias.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
No sir, you are quite wrong for you see, morality (just as religion) is different for everyone. Read: my morals are not your morals. To impose a moral code (as in imposing religion) goes against the morale of the constitution. By your definition, if a mass amount of the population believed that honor killings and stoning kids were the right thing to do - the moral thing to do - by your definition, that would be incorporated into our law, would it not? By your definition, if a large segment of the population believed for something to be moral or just to do, then we could incorporate that belief into our law just because of popularity, right?
If the majority of the population believed that honor killings and stoning children were the right thing to do, they would be law. The majority would elect leaders who would enact these type of laws.

The simple reality of any government is that what the majority wants is generally what everyone has to adhere to.
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,668 posts, read 19,898,897 times
Reputation: 21277
Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
It is unwise (and extremely idiotic) to have a law based of the morality of an issue.
Actually, aren't most laws based on what we as a society deem morally acceptable or unacceptable? Why is murder illegal? Why is theft illegal?
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,750,763 times
Reputation: 4539
KB09, your interpretations as to what violates people's rights to "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" may be different from those of others....particularly when you get to that "pursuit of happiness" (which is NOT a part of the Constitution actually....IIRC it's only in the Declaration of Independence).

I can't think of more fair way to make laws than based on what the majority of the population wants the laws to be.
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