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Old 03-28-2009, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Texas
13,985 posts, read 7,292,884 times
Reputation: 3319
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
Honestly, I think about the unborn child.
A lot of people on here could care less about the child. That's why you shouldn't get into this with them.

As far as I'm concerned, the mother doesn't have more rights than the child. That does not, however, mean that the child has more rights than the mother.

I feel that abortion should be allowed during the first trimester only in the case of rape. It should also be allowed in any case due to medical necessity of the mother or child. In all other cases, it should be banned IMO.

Since the mother chose to engage in an act knowing a child could result, it's not worth a "murder" to me (I view the unborn child as a person) simply because she doesn't want to continue the pregnancy. I am willing to allow abortion in the case of rape, because in that case she did not have a choice. I am also absolutely willing to allow abortion to protect the life of the mother. To me, this balances the rights.

Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 03-28-2009 at 06:54 PM..
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Old 03-29-2009, 04:23 PM
 
25,233 posts, read 20,301,505 times
Reputation: 7019
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
A lot of people on here could care less about the child. That's why you shouldn't get into this with them.

As far as I'm concerned, the mother doesn't have more rights than the child. That does not, however, mean that the child has more rights than the mother.

I feel that abortion should be allowed during the first trimester only in the case of rape. It should also be allowed in any case due to medical necessity of the mother or child. In all other cases, it should be banned IMO.

Since the mother chose to engage in an act knowing a child could result, it's not worth a "murder" to me (I view the unborn child as a person) simply because she doesn't want to continue the pregnancy. I am willing to allow abortion in the case of rape, because in that case she did not have a choice. I am also absolutely willing to allow abortion to protect the life of the mother. To me, this balances the rights.
Part of the reason I am against abortion is because I think about how I was born. If my mother aborted me, I wouldn't be here. If you were aborted, you wouldn't be here. I think that is one part of the human element no one looks at.
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Old 03-29-2009, 06:13 PM
 
Location: where my heart is
5,643 posts, read 3,700,984 times
Reputation: 1661
Default Maybe you would have been born

Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
Part of the reason I am against abortion is because I think about how I was born. If my mother aborted me, I wouldn't be here. If you were aborted, you wouldn't be here. I think that is one part of the human element no one looks at.
at a different time, or even to somebody else. Does anyone really know how many conceptions get flushed away every month before the woman even knows? What about them? How do you know that you weren't one of them and that you weren't "ready" to be born?
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Old 03-29-2009, 06:26 PM
 
25,233 posts, read 20,301,505 times
Reputation: 7019
Quote:
Originally Posted by TANaples View Post
at a different time, or even to somebody else. Does anyone really know how many conceptions get flushed away every month before the woman even knows? What about them? How do you know that you weren't one of them and that you weren't "ready" to be born?
The woman didn't "abort" them in that sense. When I talk about abortion, I am talking about the woman knowing she is pregnant and purposely terminating the pregnancy, not a miscarriage or a woman's period.
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Old 03-30-2009, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
857 posts, read 801,971 times
Reputation: 534
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
A lot of people on here could care less about the child. That's why you shouldn't get into this with them.
For all those pro-lifers out there I ask a simple question, if you care so much about the lives of children, what have you done to help those that die not from abortion but from treatable diseases around the world??

"Nearly six million children die from hunger or malnutrition every year, the Food and Agriculture Organization says. Many deaths result from treatable diseases such as diarrhoea, pneumonia, malaria and measles, the agency says. They would survive if they had proper nourishment, the agency says in a new report on world hunger."


news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4459348.stm


Do not talk to me about how much you care about the possible lives of aborted children. When most cannot be bothered to help the children of parents who actually want their children but cannot help them survive. Its a sad world when it becomes apparent that we care more about unwanted unborn American children more that the tragedies that occur every day in the third world. Based on my lack of action it is apparent that I do not care for these children either, but I do not care for the unwanted aborted children either, at least I am consistent.
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Old 03-30-2009, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Texas
13,985 posts, read 7,292,884 times
Reputation: 3319
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
For all those pro-lifers out there I ask a simple question, if you care so much about the lives of children, what have you done to help those that die not from abortion but from treatable diseases around the world??

"Nearly six million children die from hunger or malnutrition every year, the Food and Agriculture Organization says. Many deaths result from treatable diseases such as diarrhoea, pneumonia, malaria and measles, the agency says. They would survive if they had proper nourishment, the agency says in a new report on world hunger."


news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4459348.stm


Do not talk to me about how much you care about the possible lives of aborted children. When most cannot be bothered to help the children of parents who actually want their children but cannot help them survive. Its a sad world when it becomes apparent that we care more about unwanted unborn American children more that the tragedies that occur every day in the third world. Based on my lack of action it is apparent that I do not care for these children either, but I do not care for the unwanted aborted children either, at least I am consistent.
We have more of a duty to help the American children than the children in other countries.
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Old 03-30-2009, 08:16 AM
 
9,926 posts, read 8,390,922 times
Reputation: 7150
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
Part of the reason I am against abortion is because I think about how I was born. If my mother aborted me, I wouldn't be here. If you were aborted, you wouldn't be here. I think that is one part of the human element no one looks at.
That's pretty presumptious of you.

If my mother had aborted me and I wasn't here, so what? It would have been entirely her choice to make as far as I'm concerned. She most definitely would have had a better life had she chosen to abort, in my opinion.
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Old 03-30-2009, 08:46 AM
 
9,926 posts, read 8,390,922 times
Reputation: 7150
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
For all those pro-lifers out there I ask a simple question, if you care so much about the lives of children, what have you done to help those that die not from abortion but from treatable diseases around the world??

"Nearly six million children die from hunger or malnutrition every year, the Food and Agriculture Organization says. Many deaths result from treatable diseases such as diarrhoea, pneumonia, malaria and measles, the agency says. They would survive if they had proper nourishment, the agency says in a new report on world hunger."


news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4459348.stm


Do not talk to me about how much you care about the possible lives of aborted children. When most cannot be bothered to help the children of parents who actually want their children but cannot help them survive. Its a sad world when it becomes apparent that we care more about unwanted unborn American children more that the tragedies that occur every day in the third world. Based on my lack of action it is apparent that I do not care for these children either, but I do not care for the unwanted aborted children either, at least I am consistent.
Most people can't even consciously choose to purchase a brand of chocolate or coffee or a pair of sneakers that aren't made or harvested by child slave labour. People are very happy with the idea that if they cannot see the problem, if it's not overtly in their face, it's not their problem. MOST people can't even lobby their government successfully to care for the children that are living below the poverty line in appalling circumstances in America and other countries in the Western world let alone extend themselves to worrying about kids dying in Third world countries.

As far as I'm concerned death is always better than suffering but seemingly many people would prefer to see the suffering.
There's a lot of people, that have some very odd ideas about death and who should die and who shouldn't. Who has rights and who doesn't. It's a big no on Abortion, a yes for war, a big no for Euthanasia, but state sanctioned killing is ok because they're only ****ty criminals anyway, PROBABLY the same kids that should have been aborted but what the hell hey?
I WISH that those who are so vocal and so adament that abortion is wrong and will argue to their last breath that it should be stopped would be nearly as vocal and adament about PROPER sex education in schools and advocats of better access to quality birth control for people on low incomes. I wish they'd stop thumping around outside health clinics spitting at women and girls and start looking at boys and men and effecting some real change to the ridiculous attitude that it's all about immaculate conception. Quit trying to dictate what women should and shouldn't be doing and look at what men are and aren't doing. EVERY SINGLE ABORTION involved a guy. A guy that engaged in the act KNOWING that a child could result and quite possibly an abortion.
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Old 03-30-2009, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Texas
13,985 posts, read 7,292,884 times
Reputation: 3319
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow View Post
Most people can't even consciously choose to purchase a brand of chocolate or coffee or a pair of sneakers that aren't made or harvested by child slave labour. People are very happy with the idea that if they cannot see the problem, if it's not overtly in their face, it's not their problem. MOST people can't even lobby their government successfully to care for the children that are living below the poverty line in appalling circumstances in America and other countries in the Western world let alone extend themselves to worrying about kids dying in Third world countries.

As far as I'm concerned death is always better than suffering but seemingly many people would prefer to see the suffering.
There's a lot of people, that have some very odd ideas about death and who should die and who shouldn't. Who has rights and who doesn't. It's a big no on Abortion, a yes for war, a big no for Euthanasia, but state sanctioned killing is ok because they're only ****ty criminals anyway, PROBABLY the same kids that should have been aborted but what the hell hey?
I WISH that those who are so vocal and so adament that abortion is wrong and will argue to their last breath that it should be stopped would be nearly as vocal and adament about PROPER sex education in schools and advocats of better access to quality birth control for people on low incomes. I wish they'd stop thumping around outside health clinics spitting at women and girls and start looking at boys and men and effecting some real change to the ridiculous attitude that it's all about immaculate conception. Quit trying to dictate what women should and shouldn't be doing and look at what men are and aren't doing. EVERY SINGLE ABORTION involved a guy. A guy that engaged in the act KNOWING that a child could result and quite possibly an abortion.
I STRONGLY support proper sex education in schools. I like the "abstinence plus" method. Teaching the kids that abstinence is the only method that's 100% but then also teaching about contraceptives. I'd like them to teach exactly how effective each method is, teach about combining methods, and to teach that the methods are not as effective if they are not used correctly.

I also think they should be taught what several major religions (not just Christianity) say about premarital sex....from an objective view, without one religion being preferred. They also need to be taught about the emotional consequences of sex at young ages and endless one-night stands, etc.

I also support making condoms available in certain places for free.

I don't think that death is an appropriate response to alleviate suffering. It's simply not. When you mention "state-sanctioned killings of criminals," I should respond by making clear that I am against capital punishment. As far as wars, they are necessary in some circumstances.

Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 03-30-2009 at 08:59 AM..
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Old 03-30-2009, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Plano, Texas
8,640 posts, read 13,933,700 times
Reputation: 21111
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
For all those pro-lifers out there I ask a simple question, if you care so much about the lives of children, what have you done to help those that die not from abortion but from treatable diseases around the world??

"Nearly six million children die from hunger or malnutrition every year, the Food and Agriculture Organization says. Many deaths result from treatable diseases such as diarrhoea, pneumonia, malaria and measles, the agency says. They would survive if they had proper nourishment, the agency says in a new report on world hunger."


news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4459348.stm


Do not talk to me about how much you care about the possible lives of aborted children. When most cannot be bothered to help the children of parents who actually want their children but cannot help them survive. Its a sad world when it becomes apparent that we care more about unwanted unborn American children more that the tragedies that occur every day in the third world. Based on my lack of action it is apparent that I do not care for these children either, but I do not care for the unwanted aborted children either, at least I am consistent.
You make a point about helping living children that may be well taken, but this is a discussion about abortion, and any perceived lack of action regarding living children and their welfare still does not make abortion acceptable or moral. At least that's how I see it.
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