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Old 04-01-2009, 11:37 AM
 
44,584 posts, read 43,115,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
War is necessary in some circumstances. The death penalty is not. Abortion may be in some cases, but it needs to be used only in cases of necessity.
My own view on war is that it should never be used unless there is no other choice left. The death penalty is not really a necessary thing. The death penalty won't bring back the dead and the places that have executed the most people still have the highest crime rates in the USA. I'm not saying the death penalty causes crime because it doesn't. I am saying that it won't deter crime.
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Old 04-01-2009, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,766,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
My own view on war is that it should never be used unless there is no other choice left. The death penalty is not really a necessary thing. The death penalty won't bring back the dead and the places that have executed the most people still have the highest crime rates in the USA. I'm not saying the death penalty causes crime because it doesn't. I am saying that it won't deter crime.
Yes....if you'll read my post I stated I am also against the death penalty. It doesn't work.
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Old 04-01-2009, 03:15 PM
 
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The only reason I could see the death penalty being viable is if it was to save money instead of supporting the individual till they die naturally. Maybe just give people the choice between death penalty and a life sentence with no chance for parole. But the issues between abortion and the death penalty are completely different.

The absolute fact is that abortions are going to be had whether they are legal or not, I think it would be irresponsible for the government to not try to regulate the procedures.
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Old 04-01-2009, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,766,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickeldude View Post
The only reason I could see the death penalty being viable is if it was to save money instead of supporting the individual till they die naturally. Maybe just give people the choice between death penalty and a life sentence with no chance for parole. But the issues between abortion and the death penalty are completely different.

The absolute fact is that abortions are going to be had whether they are legal or not, I think it would be irresponsible for the government to not try to regulate the procedures.
The death penalty actually ends up costing more money due to the endless appeals and multiple attorneys being provided, etc.

As far as abortion, I can't agree.
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Old 04-01-2009, 03:57 PM
 
1,245 posts, read 1,228,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
The death penalty actually ends up costing more money due to the endless appeals and multiple attorneys being provided, etc.
Yeah I read that somewhere also, but in some cases like when they confess there is actually a cost saving. But really that doesn't justify it completely. But thats for another thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
As far as abortion, I can't agree.
Why not? if abortions are going to happen anyways, why wouldn't the government try to step in and try to regulate it?
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Old 04-01-2009, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickeldude View Post
Why not? if abortions are going to happen anyways, why wouldn't the government try to step in and try to regulate it?
To some of us, abortion is murder. Murders of those of us who have been born are going to happen anyway so ask yourself whether you would be willing to allow the government to legalize and regulate them as well.
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Old 04-01-2009, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Pensacola, Fl
656 posts, read 951,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
To some of us, abortion is murder. Murders of those of us who have been born are going to happen anyway so ask yourself whether you would be willing to allow the government to legalize and regulate them as well.
In some cases, yes, murder should be legalized across the board. As in the case of suicide (on the books as a type of murder and fully prosecutable by law) I think it should the attempt should be legalized.

I (and other's like myself) don't define abortion as murder and that is the main difference between pro-lifers and pro-choice. The life of the mother trumps the life of the fetus and that's just personal opinion. The question is, legally speaking, do you wish for abortion to be outlawed? My answer would be no. Give the women the right to choose what to do with her body.
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Old 04-01-2009, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
In some cases, yes, murder should be legalized across the board. As in the case of suicide (on the books as a type of murder and fully prosecutable by law) I think it should the attempt should be legalized.
To the best of my knowledge, attempted suicide laws have been taken off the books in most US states.

Just curious...how do you feel about laws against assisting someone else in committing suicide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
I (and other's like myself) don't define abortion as murder and that is the main difference between pro-lifers and pro-choice. The life of the mother trumps the life of the fetus and that's just personal opinion. The question is, legally speaking, do you wish for abortion to be outlawed? My answer would be no. Give the women the right to choose what to do with her body.
My answer is yes with some exceptions. My response to "her body" is that the unborn child is a body as well. I view the lives as equal, which is why I'm willing to allow abortion in the case of rape (in all other cases, she DID have a choice and knew that pregnancy could result so the fetus is hardly in her uterus against her will). I'm also willing to allow in the case of medical necessity. To me, this balances the rights of the two lives.
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Old 04-01-2009, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Pensacola, Fl
656 posts, read 951,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
To the best of my knowledge, attempted suicide laws have been taken off the books in most US states.

Just curious...how do you feel about laws against assisting someone else in committing suicide?
I think the attempt is still illegal in most states (you can't make suicide illegal. Can't prosecute if their dead!). I'll look it up and get back to you on that.

About the laws: I think they should be taken off the books in their entirety. If someone does not want to live, why try to stop them? If they are living in constant pain (whether it be physical, emotional, psychological, etc.), I think they have the right to do as they see fit on whether to end their life or not. Now, this does not mean I encourage people to commit suicide or anything, but, legally speaking, why try to stop them? It is their body and they should have the right to do with it as they see fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
My answer is yes with some exceptions. My response to "her body" is that the unborn child is a body as well. I view the lives as equal, which is why I'm willing to allow abortion in the case of rape (in all other cases, she DID have a choice and knew that pregnancy could result so the fetus is hardly in her uterus against her will). I'm also willing to allow in the case of medical necessity. To me, this balances the rights of the two lives.
IMO, the right of a fully developed human being trumps the right of a developing fetus. You know this, I know this, hell, this whole board knows this; no need to debate it any further. Another question to you: what do you consider medically necessary? If worst came to worst, I would rather have a skilled physician (or a team of physicians) telling us what 'medically necessary' means and what it entails rather than politicians and uneducated peoples (in that field) deciding what it is.
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Old 04-01-2009, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,766,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
I think the attempt is still illegal in most states (you can't make suicide illegal. Can't prosecute if their dead!). I'll look it up and get back to you on that.
It may be possible to have them temporarily committed to a psych hospital (and possibly committed long-term in SOME cases), but it's not an actual crime in my state. As far as other states, I don't know.,

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
About the laws: I think they should be taken off the books in their entirety. If someone does not want to live, why try to stop them? If they are living in constant pain (whether it be physical, emotional, psychological, etc.), I think they have the right to do as they see fit on whether to end their life or not. Now, this does not mean I encourage people to commit suicide or anything, but, legally speaking, why try to stop them? It is their body and they should have the right to do with it as they see fit.
This is ludicrous. People who commit suicide are often times not capable of consent. They are temporarily "insane" if you will. Something like 90% (or more) of people who attempt suicide and live through it are HAPPY later that their attempt was not successful.

If we're talking about people who have terminal illnesses, I can sympathize with this view. But if you're talking about someone who is depressed or who has experienced some type of crisis (other than personally having a terminal illness), this idea is insane....no offense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb09 View Post
IMO, the right of a fully developed human being trumps the right of a developing fetus. You know this, I know this, hell, this whole board knows this; no need to debate it any further. Another question to you: what do you consider medically necessary? If worst came to worst, I would rather have a skilled physician (or a team of physicians) telling us what 'medically necessary' means and what it entails rather than politicians and uneducated peoples (in that field) deciding what it is.
If "you know this" means that's your opinion, fine. If it means that the adult's rights trump the child's and that is an absolute fact, you need to realize that it is actually only your opinion.

Decisions regarding medical necessity should be made by a minimum of two physicians using criteria determined by a state medical board.

Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 04-01-2009 at 09:57 PM..
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