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Old 04-03-2009, 01:16 AM
 
24,736 posts, read 26,803,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
A majority of our laws are actually based on moral principles.
I agree. I would say they are based on spiritual principles.
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Old 04-03-2009, 01:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grmasterb View Post
1. If a child is adopted to a loving family who supports him/her, I don't see that as a burden on society.
2. Yes, she should be able to "live her life the way she wants," but there are consequences for that, too.
3. The world, in the aggregate, is NOT overpopulated. That is a lie. There may be pockets which are overpopulated, but overall the world is not. The U.S., for example, still has a ton of habitable space.
I agree on all counts. I would add to issue #3. The world's poor use of resources and/or blatant corruption is the REAL reason why so many people live in poverty.

There's no real reason (except corporate corruption and complacency on the part of citizens) that we don't have a car that doesn't pollute...that we can't use water more efficiently, etc.
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Old 04-03-2009, 01:21 AM
 
24,736 posts, read 26,803,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donsabi View Post
We now live in a hedonistic society that places pleasure before human life. How is it that any female can get pregnant with all the birth control that is available today? (With the exception of rape or incest).
Thank you. Well said.
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Old 04-03-2009, 01:30 AM
 
24,736 posts, read 26,803,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
6 billion people, thats ~ 20 times the US population. u dont think of it as overpopulated because its not crowded here, but if everyperson on this planet was given a reasonable amount of food and land to live on then we would have no space left. Were just happy because people in china are willing to live in rediculous close quarters in rediculously large urban ghettos. if most of them were all given a house in the burbs this planet would be out of land to use. I guess over populated depends on how you look at it
There's no reason why people in China have to live that way. It's a question of poor resource management.

Here is an interesting post on the overpopulation topic, with an excerpt below the link:

Mother Mary's Garden, The Golden Age requires an all-encompassing shift in consciousness

....on the one hand you have been brought up to believe in the very subtle lie that human beings have no ultimate power over nature. But at the same time you have been brought up to believe that human beings can destroy nature and can only destroy nature. Because, after all, there is nature and then there is human beings, and somehow there is a disconnect between the two, so that you have been brought up with the nave belief that the planet was once an idyllic place where all the animals lived and there was no humans to destroy and pollute.

And therefore, you should feel bad about being a human being on this planet. You should voluntarily submit yourself to the lie that there are too many people on this planet. And, my beloved, you will notice even this movie; how it is part of the greater propaganda without any deliberate intent of the people who made it. Think back to the very opening words that 200 years ago there were only two billion people on this planet, today there are 6 billion people crowding the planet.

Well, my beloved, does this not show you how they want you to believe that on the one hand you have no ability to influence the big picture and the balance and order of nature, but on the other hand you are an alien creature in nature who can only destroy. And so, my beloved, do you see that now they are trying to sell you on the next lie of
global warming. Well, my beloved, if humankind has the ability to influence the planetary weather through global warming then does this not disprove the claim that humankind has no power to change the order of nature?
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:06 AM
 
1,245 posts, read 1,228,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Abortion IS already legal.
I mean like when this whole debate is over, because there are still politicians trying to abolish it. I should have worded it differently but I'm lazy on forums.
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
But anyway, what people perceive as being "moral" or "immoral" is what changes and that's pretty much how morality affects the law.
Except that the sodomy laws were changed when homosexuality was still seen as an abomination, as it is today seeing as how same sex marriage still isn't accepted, same as when blacks were made citizens. Laws are in place to hold up the constitution, not to determine what our collective morals are.
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:37 AM
 
604 posts, read 1,050,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
A majority of our laws are actually based on moral principles.
good try
would be nice if that were true
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:46 AM
 
604 posts, read 1,050,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Abortion IS already legal.

But anyway, what people perceive as being "moral" or "immoral" is what changes and that's pretty much how morality affects the law.
Again, good try.
But how, or why, could morals change? Seems to me what is "moral" or "immoral" has ALWAYS been either "moral" or "immoral". I'm certainly not gonna wait for the government to tell me which is what. It either IS or it ISN'T.
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,766,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickeldude View Post
Except that the sodomy laws were changed when homosexuality was still seen as an abomination, as it is today seeing as how same sex marriage still isn't accepted, same as when blacks were made citizens. Laws are in place to hold up the constitution, not to determine what our collective morals are.
Sodomy laws were overturned in 2003 IIRC. That's not long ago at all. Homosexuality has become more acceptable since the 1980's, when the USSC upheld sodomy laws.

I'm Christian and fairly conservative and am not against homosexuality. I am against gay marriage. There's a difference.

Laws are in place to uphold the Constitution, but there is absolutely no way to leave morals completely out of it. None.
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,766,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbledeez View Post
Again, good try.
But how, or why, could morals change? Seems to me what is "moral" or "immoral" has ALWAYS been either "moral" or "immoral". I'm certainly not gonna wait for the government to tell me which is what. It either IS or it ISN'T.
Morals have changed significantly over the past 20-40 years. Premarital sex, for example, used to be viewed as taboo and immoral. Now it's widely accepted.
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,766,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbledeez View Post
good try
would be nice if that were true
Then where would you say our laws come from? How do/did our leaders determine what would be included in the law?
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