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Old 04-06-2009, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,763,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
By this rationale, people who don't want children should never have sex? Yanno, since nothing is foolproof (or so the abstinence only people continually insist)?
I think my husband might object to your sort of thinking-- and I'm not too crazy about it, either.
There's always adoption as well...
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Old 04-06-2009, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,763,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
Because, as noted, a girlchild's life doesn't matter, once she's born.
It does matter. I shouldn't have posted that. In a rape situation, I believe in the right to an abortion.
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Old 04-06-2009, 08:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
If my mother had aborted my eldest sister, and probably myself, it would have made no huge change in world events, and probably made her life a whole lot happier.
As for me, I wouldn't be here to care one way or another(though according to my personal religious beliefs, I might well be elsewhere).
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Old 04-06-2009, 10:48 PM
 
24,714 posts, read 26,785,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
I also think they should be taught what several major religions (not just Christianity) say about premarital sex....from an objective view, without one religion being preferred. They also need to be taught about the emotional consequences of sex at young ages and endless one-night stands, etc.
I agree with you on "abstinence plus" sex education. I also agree to some degree on teaching what the world's religions teach. There are a lot of common threads there. Most of the world's religions prohibit or discourage promiscuous sex, sex outside of marriage, etc. because thousands of years of accumulated human wisdom has shown the problems these behaviors cause.

However, instead of teaching from the religious angle, I would like the sex issue to be taught from the emotional / psychological / economics angle. For the most part, I think a lot of the non-religious disciplines would agree that sex outside of marriage increases the risk of or exacerbates existing emotional problems as well as economic ones.
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Old 04-06-2009, 10:57 PM
 
24,714 posts, read 26,785,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
When abortion becomes the biggest issue facing this country then I will listen to all the pro lifers out there, until then we have bigger problems to deal with.
Sorry, but I think 1,200,000 abortions a year is a big problem. We have only around 17,000 murders a year and people freak out about those all the time.

So, that means that only 2% of those aborted "fetuses" would need to be human beings to exceed our current murder rate.

To me, this should be seen as unacceptable.

I might add, that most pro-choice liberals, in particular, would probably say the US murder rate is way higher than in other developed countries and we should make most or all guns illegal to get the rate down. But when it comes, to abortion, 1.2 million abortions is just a personal choice.

As I said, I do think abortion should remain legal (at least in the first trimester). However, I think we need to make a concerted effort to do all we can to prevent unplanned pregnancies in the first place.

That generally would mean "abstinence plus" type edcation in the schools as well as creating a social environment that discrourages sex outside of marriage, casual sex, sex with lots of partners etc...basically a more conservative social environment than we have now, without going back to the 1950s where the girl / woman bore most of the stigma for an unplanned pregnancy.

Last edited by mysticaltyger; 04-06-2009 at 11:19 PM..
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:03 PM
 
24,714 posts, read 26,785,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Morals have changed significantly over the past 20-40 years. Premarital sex, for example, used to be viewed as taboo and immoral. Now it's widely accepted.
Yeah, and we've paid a high price for it, too. In the name of "freedom" and not stigmatizing women, we've replaced one kind of oppression with another.

Now, we have almost 40% of children born out of wedlock and people think this is ok and normal. This is despite the fact that single parents and their children face serious economic and emotional struggles. It's also true that live-in relationships are even less stable than legal marriages.
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:07 PM
 
24,714 posts, read 26,785,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
Yeah, that worked out really well for the Palin kid (among others).
I am not one of those "abstinence only" people. But before the sexual revolution of the 1960s people DID put off having sex until later.

Contraception does fail. I read somewhere that the average woman will have 1.8 unplanned pregnancies even if she does use contraception throughout her life. I also read that couples who are most likely to use contraception correctly are those who are already married. These are the kinds of facts I'd like to see taught in sex ed programs. Even the Alan Guttmacher Institute (a pro-choice organization) says that in 1/2 of all abortions, the woman was using some kind of contraception (maybe some lie, but many others probably don't use it correctly, and for others it just fails).

I think what is often not mentioned is that contraceptive "failure rates" are only usually stated in terms of being one year. But if you start having sex at age 18, and aren't ready to have a baby until age 25, then what's the contraceptive failure rate over that 7 year period? I'm sure it's a lot higher than the one year rate.

In short, I think contraception is important, but too many see it as a panacea that it isn't.

As far as the Palin kid goes, I think adoption would have been a better option. But it seems most people don't even regard that as an option anymore, unfortunately.
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:14 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 12,183,162 times
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Sorry but you guys are starting to sound like dictators now.

Quite some regime you've got planned there.

Fact: I will have sex with WHO I want, WHEN I want, AS OFTEN AS I WANT, with as MANY PARTNERS as I choose whether I be married or not AND it's really none of your business. It's also none of your business what birth control I use if any AND also not your choice OR your business what I will do should I become pregnant.

So by all means keep up with trying to make rules about me and my body and what you think I should be doing but don't be surprised if I am resistant to your plans and feel the need to fight against them to ensure they don't come to fruition.
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:26 PM
 
24,714 posts, read 26,785,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow View Post
Sorry but you guys are starting to sound like dictators now.

Quite some regime you've got planned there.

Fact: I will have sex with WHO I want, WHEN I want, AS OFTEN AS I WANT, with as MANY PARTNERS as I choose whether I be married or not AND it's really none of your business. It's also none of your business what birth control I use if any AND also not your choice OR your business what I will do should I become pregnant.

So by all means keep up with trying to make rules about me and my body and what you think I should be doing but don't be surprised if I am resistant to your plans and feel the need to fight against them to ensure they don't come to fruition.
What we do affects others. It isn't all about YOU!!! I might add that I am all for MEN restraining THEIR behavior.

And quite frankly, the attitude you exhibit gives rise to the idea among many that those who get pregnant can have kids out of wedlock and expect the taxpayers to pick up the tab for welfare and all the other problems that kids born out of wedlock have.
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:41 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 12,183,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
What we do affects others. It isn't all about YOU!!! I might add that I am all for MEN restraining THEIR behavior.

And quite frankly, the attitude you exhibit gives rise to the idea among many that those who get pregnant can have kids out of wedlock and expect the taxpayers to pick up the tab for welfare and all the other problems that kids born out of wedlock have.
Actually it is about me, it's my life, so it is all about me and you can't tell ANYTHING about my attitude from what I posted other than the fact that I have absolutely NO DESIRE to allow YOU and others like you that feel you are the only ones with rights to dictate how I live my life or what I do with my body. I'm certainly not sitting here telling you how to go about your sex and reproductive life. Perhaps if you spent a little more time worrying about yourself you wouldn't have time to be plotting how everybody else should be living?

For the record you're not the ONLY tax payer on the planet and seeing as I was born out of wedlock and was supported as a child by two tax payers and have now gone on to be a tax payer myself as far as I can see from a taxpayer point of view it's even. I would however like to see an end to taxpayer funding of religious groups hell bent on moralizing and judging everybody within an inch of their lives.

Seems to me you're doing a fair bit of assuming. Why not put that mental energy into worrying about yourself and your own sex and reproductive life. Don't like abortion? Don't have one.
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