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Old 04-07-2009, 06:51 PM
 
5,019 posts, read 12,468,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
I disagree somewhat. I believe tax money should go to health care, just not abortion. I feel that abortion is a very horrible thing to do and it should not be tax-funded. Anything else such as surgery, dental care, regular checkups, that's good. Never for abortion.
As I said, I'd prefer my tax dollars go to education and birth control, not abortion. Just so wasteful, hurtful and often senseless. I want it to remain legal and safe, but at the same time work to make it Unnecessary. Obsolete. One can dream, right?

Dental care??? I had to laugh. I would so love to see that.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:57 PM
 
2,639 posts, read 5,056,610 times
Reputation: 2346
Abortion...I'm split, somewhat. In a nutshell, my feelings are contingent on the situation presented to me.

If I come across some 14-year old kid who couldn't keep her legs closed and just had to screw the hot football team captain, no...abortion is not appropriate. She should be forced to keep and raise the child on her own. You know the saying...don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time? More like "Don't do the deed if you're not ready to feed." If that sounds harsh, it is...because sadly it's the only way to instill some sense of responsibility in the kid. The hot captain will no doubt dump her, and none of the other boys she finds attractive will touch her with a 10-foot pole. She'll have no choice but to reconcile what her mistake was.

If it's someone who's a grown person over 18 who has no job and has no sense of responsibility and self-actualization - abortion is appropriate because you are not capable of bringing a life into this world and nurturing it. If you haven't yet mastered the fine art of taking care of yourself without clinging to some dude, you sure can't take care of a child.

If it's someone who is capable of taking care of a child but just doesn't want to because they're a party rat and don't want the responsibility, I say give them a choice: Have the abortion, spend a year in jail. Or, have the child and take care of it - giving it up for adoption is a misdemeanor for child abandonment which is subject to a year in jail and forced care of the child.


Basically, I'm saying that if you're young and stupid, abortion should not be allowed. If you're old enough but not self sufficient, abortion is acceptable. If you're old enough and ignorant, abortion should not be allowed. In other words, "If you can but just don't want to, you should be forced to."
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,763,873 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow View Post
Actually as the law stands here I do have that right ALTHOUGH I'm not killing a child if I have an abortion.
Yes the law says you have the right. IMO it's not the right thing to do. YOU ARE KILLING A CHILD...even if you don't want to call him or her a child...you CANNOT argue that you are ending/killing a LIFE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow View Post
I'm just wondering afo how you would feel if I decided that it was morally reprehensible to allow people to die because of a lack of organ donors, or blood donors and I decided it was time for me to gather with like minded people and push for manditory organ harvest/blood donation from people that didn't wish to donate? Now before you jump up and down and say these things are not related, to me they are, both situations are about people wishing to enforce rules and regulations on other people which denies them autonomy over their own bodies.
The organ donation and blood donation comparison is invalid because in 99.999% of cases the mother CHOSE to engage in an action knowing a child could result. It's hardly a "forced" organ donation as some have suggested. Yes, the child needs the mother's organs to survive. But once again she DID have a choice at one time.

As to the part of your post I bolded, I consider the child as a "body" too. It's not your body to choose to kill, IMO. No different than if you decided to kill him or her after birth. When I hear arguments like this, part of me sees it as almost exactly the same as a woman saying "I have the right to kill my 2 year old."

Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 04-07-2009 at 07:08 PM..
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,763,873 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaidmom View Post
As I said, I'd prefer my tax dollars go to education and birth control, not abortion. Just so wasteful, hurtful and often senseless. I want it to remain legal and safe, but at the same time work to make it Unnecessary. Obsolete. One can dream, right?
I agree that we need to focus more on education and birth control.
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Old 04-08-2009, 02:12 AM
 
1,245 posts, read 1,228,561 times
Reputation: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Yes the law says you have the right. IMO it's not the right thing to do. YOU ARE KILLING A CHILD...even if you don't want to call him or her a child...you CANNOT argue that you are ending/killing a LIFE.
Don't think anyone is saying abortion is right without extenuating circumstances, but your opinion that a parasitic fetus is equal to a human life is just that, an opinion. I'd equate having an abortion to killing an animal, not a cool thing to do, but necessary.


Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
As to the part of your post I bolded, I consider the child as a "body" too. It's not your body to choose to kill, IMO. No different than if you decided to kill him or her after birth. When I hear arguments like this, part of me sees it as almost exactly the same as a woman saying "I have the right to kill my 2 year old."
I bolded the parts that show your opinion, not saying its wrong, but you have to understand that not everyone agrees with you. People get so caught up in right and wrong that they forget that its not black and white like that.

This is why what people consider right or wrong shouldn't be the determining factor in how we vote on or decide things. Rather whats best for America. In many people's minds that means accepting abortions, and if you're against them, then don't get one.
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Old 04-08-2009, 02:25 AM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
4,271 posts, read 4,983,848 times
Reputation: 3861
My stance on abortion is that it is wrong. 100%. I also don't believe in taxes going to abortions. It violates my right to practice my religion when I am forced to pay for murder. How come if someone other than the mother kills the baby it is considered murder, but if the mother does it that isn't the case? Either it is murder or it isn't.
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:48 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,160,640 times
Reputation: 3481
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
I also believe that abortion should be allowed in the case of medical necessity. If the mother's life is in danger as determined by at least two physicians, it should be permitted.

Okay, so a zygote or an embryo is a fully qualified person-- unless it results from rape, or incest, or endangers the mother's life, or is somehow otherwise problematic for the people endorsing its full personhood.
This smacks of "some people are more equal than others" far more than the entire line in the sand drawn to completely exclude zygotes and embryos from personhood.
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,160,640 times
Reputation: 3481
Quote:
Originally Posted by revelated View Post
Abortion...I'm split, somewhat. In a nutshell, my feelings are contingent on the situation presented to me.

If I come across some 14-year old kid who couldn't keep her legs closed and just had to screw the hot football team captain, no...abortion is not appropriate. She should be forced to keep and raise the child on her own. You know the saying...don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time? More like "Don't do the deed if you're not ready to feed." If that sounds harsh, it is...because sadly it's the only way to instill some sense of responsibility in the kid. The hot captain will no doubt dump her, and none of the other boys she finds attractive will touch her with a 10-foot pole. She'll have no choice but to reconcile what her mistake was.

Well, at least you're an honest mysogynist.
What sort of punishment does the male partner get in this scenario, since we can be pretty sure it's not masturbation causing the pregnancy?
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,160,640 times
Reputation: 3481
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Yes the law says you have the right. IMO it's not the right thing to do. YOU ARE KILLING A CHILD...even if you don't want to call him or her a child...you CANNOT argue that you are ending/killing a LIFE.
So you're opposed to infertility treatments, as well, I suppose? Because, yanno, not all embryos are successfully brought to birth. Or is infertility treatment only allowable if one is willing to be Octo-mom, and implant whatever's handy?
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:00 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,160,640 times
Reputation: 3481
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post

The organ donation and blood donation comparison is invalid because in 99.999% of cases the mother CHOSE to engage in an action knowing a child could result. It's hardly a "forced" organ donation as some have suggested. Yes, the child needs the mother's organs to survive. But once again she DID have a choice at one time.
And here we are again...
Women cannot be permitted to have a choice in their sexual behavior. (Men, of course, are nowhere in the equation.)
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